Lulu.com & Pages - publishing?

Has anyone used Pages for composing a book and publishing? For www.lulu.com, or www.createspace.com for example?

Pages to PDF to publisher.

I'm thinking mainly of black and white text here, and then a cover.

Wondering if there are any issues I need look out for?

MacBook Pro 2.16 Intel Core Duo, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Feb 6, 2010 5:47 PM

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38 replies

Feb 6, 2010 6:37 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Thank you Peter. Smart. Had not thought of that.

You know, after our previous discussion about outputting PDF's from Pages ... is there any chance something has changed in the last month or so (an update?). I'm still in Leopard... but...

The PDF's I'm getting from Pages (print PDF) seem to have full vector text and when I zoom in 2000% on the original stills, graphics, or the EFFECTS: drop-shadows, reflections -- they too seem to be very high resolution. There is no breaking up or artefacting (as would be the case in 72 dpi). So I'm still confused. Wouldn't a 2000% zoom-in reveal a serious, debilitating, loss of quality? I don't see ANY loss of quality.

And thank you most kindly for the tip on the text...

Ben

Feb 6, 2010 6:45 PM in response to Ben Low

It depends on how you have output them, how you have set up the document and their stacking order.

There is also the question of perception.

What you see and I see are 2 entirely different things.

My perceptions have been tempered by 25 years of experience and a good knowledge of the industry.

Still that only serves to emphasise any mistakes I might make, which are numerous.

If you like send me an email of what you have made and the steps you took to output the .pdfs and I will preflight them and confirm if you have printable material.

Peter

Feb 6, 2010 7:27 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

I'll send you a YouSendIt version too ... just in case that 10 megs starts to act up in your mailbox.

I just transferred a couple of thousand stills from a trip I took down your way (vaguely your way). I cut a film all about India, in New Zealand. Wonderful film. I almost felt I'd been in India for four months, instead of the edge of a sheep farm in the NZ hinterland.

Feb 6, 2010 9:07 PM in response to Ben Low

Hi Ben

Got the files.

All shadows and the reflection are 72dpi. There are 14 instances of transparency, I can only account for 11 (mostly shadows and 1 reflection) so you have a spare 3 buried somewhere. 🙂

6 of the photos have too high resolution which will have affected the sharpening.

1 item causes excessive ink coverage.

Text is still vector because you did not use transparency on them and they are on top. The blurb on the back is too low point size for 4 color separations.

Images are DeviceRGB interpreted as cmyk.

There are no trim marks nor art box nor bleeds (we are dealing with Pages here after all).

File is not compliant with PDFX/1-a(2001)

…and your +CreateSpace On Demand DVD Cover template+ complete with instructions, is still there under everything else. 🙂

If you are going to digital print some of the defects will be hidden, in part because digital print can tolerate lower bit rates, but mainly because digital print inaccuracy makes it hard to see detail.

The question is whether you and your end audience are happy with the results. That is what varies in any job and can not be measured except when you and they have the job in their hand.

A professional designer/printer would not pass the file. It looks good on screen but that sends the alarm bells ringing for print.

Peter

NB I am only guessing here but have noticed that OSX's excellent Quartz filters do a terrific job of interpolating low resolution screen images, both still and in movies. This does however make it hard to believe anything you see on a Mac screen.

Feb 7, 2010 10:09 AM in response to PeterBreis0807

Peter,


I love it. A crash course in graphics. All at once. Whoosh. Just a couple of questions then:

1. If I rebuild this in Photoshop, will most of the problems you mention be taken care of automatically? I've never had a printer reject a Photoshop. I have had a printer reject a Pages\PDF ... which is what got me started on all this. But Photoshop rasterizes all the text ... so I've been told this is not ideal for the printer. I'm very comfortable with Photoshop (at least in terms of creating the design ... I can't even pretend to know about the subtleties of output for printing).

2. I do have Illustrator, but I spent an hour trying to figure out how to do a soft drop shadow ... and finally gave up. I actually spent three hours trying (and failing) to rebuild a graphic that took me twenty minutes to create in Pages ... and the frustration level was a formula for an aneurism.

3. My InDesign is several operation systems old and no longer functions (not to mention I've mislaid the registration number). But. If I saved my pennies. And rebuilt this in InDesign, would most of the problems you mention automatically go away (just be the nature of how InDesign creates things)?

4. You say: "6 of the photos have too high resolution which will have affected the sharpening." What is 'too high resolution'? I'm embarrassed, looking at the photos now, that they are a collection of mis-matched dpi's. The highest appears to be 400 dpi. This was an old film job that's been resurrected, and I made the mistake of not carefully checking each of the graphics going into it. What dpi should I be working with, as a rule, so I won't have issues about sharpening?

I think my major question would be: is there an app I can work with that will automatically take care of most of those issues created by Pages? Like InDesign. And that won't require me to learn all that YOU know to be able to get the job done?

And thank you most kindly for setting me straight. I can bite the bullet and move to Adobe knowing it's not just minor issues that are requiring me to.

Ben

Feb 7, 2010 10:30 AM in response to PeterBreis0807

Use the grey scale slider in the color picker and pick 100% black.


Nope, open the Apple Color Picker, select CMYK slider mode, click the colour space icon to the left of the slider setting, scroll down to select Device CMYK.

Expressed in PostScript and PDF, device CMYK is rendered by the numbers in the RIP without a CIE colour managed transform.

/hh

Feb 7, 2010 1:47 PM in response to Ben Low

Ben Low wrote:
Peter,


I love it. A crash course in graphics. All at once. Whoosh. Just a couple of questions then:

1. If I rebuild this in Photoshop, will most of the problems you mention be taken care of automatically? I've never had a printer reject a Photoshop. I have had a printer reject a Pages\PDF ... which is what got me started on all this. But Photoshop rasterizes all the text ... so I've been told this is not ideal for the printer. I'm very comfortable with Photoshop (at least in terms of creating the design ... I can't even pretend to know about the subtleties of output for printing).


Please not Photoshop. You should keep everything vector as far as possible and whilst photoshop can do that, with work, it is hard going. Definitely don't rasterise line work. eg your logos in thgis work.

2. I do have Illustrator, but I spent an hour trying to figure out how to do a soft drop shadow ... and finally gave up. I actually spent three hours trying (and failing) to rebuild a graphic that took me twenty minutes to create in Pages ... and the frustration level was a formula for an aneurism.


I cut my teeth on Illustrator 1.0, actually Cricket before it, and I also suffer from frustration with the way Adobe has laid it out. They keep shuffling things around with every version too. Still it does things I can't do anywhere else.

3. My InDesign is several operation systems old and no longer functions (not to mention I've mislaid the registration number). But. If I saved my pennies. And rebuilt this in InDesign, would most of the problems you mention automatically go away (just be the nature of how InDesign creates things)?


InDesign CS4 has all the proofing tools you need and once set up will do the preflight I just did. Further if you go to a competent printer they will give you the profile that will more or less make it automatic. You will still need to study up what it all means and how to get a usable workflow. Not just push a button.

4. You say: "6 of the photos have too high resolution which will have affected the sharpening." What is 'too high resolution'? I'm embarrassed, looking at the photos now, that they are a collection of mis-matched dpi's. The highest appears to be 400 dpi. This was an old film job that's been resurrected, and I made the mistake of not carefully checking each of the graphics going into it. What dpi should I be working with, as a rule, so I won't have issues about sharpening?


For commercial offset the target is twice the screen resolution for digital work it can be less but not less than 1.5 times. Once you have your size, sharpen consistently in Photoshop at that size so it looks just oversharp on screen.

I think my major question would be: is there an app I can work with that will automatically take care of most of those issues created by Pages? Like InDesign. And that won't require me to learn all that YOU know to be able to get the job done?


You can manually add crops, slugs and bleed in Pages by making the document oversize and drawing them in. You can even fix the resolution. You can do nothing about the lack of spot colors or "specials". There however remains the lack of spreads, but most of all the lack of feedback as to what Pages and OSX are up to behind your back. To make sure every object was printable you'd have to pick through them one by one and tick them off a hand written list and that is a ridiculous way to work. Then you would still not be certain.

InDesign and Quark are still the only 2 serious places to work on the Mac. I don't know how well Windows 7 has fixed things, but Mac OSX is your greatest enemy to producing usable print. ID & QXP circumvent OSX's failings.

Only if Apple chooses to fix the things it leaves everyone to believe it has actually implemented in OSX, will you be able to use the more inexpensive software that relies on the system for output. I had great hopes for Snow leopard but it has turned out to be a vast disappointment.

Peter

Feb 7, 2010 1:49 PM in response to Henrik Holmegaard

Henrik Holmegaard wrote:
Use the grey scale slider in the color picker and pick 100% black.


Nope, open the Apple Color Picker, select CMYK slider mode, click the colour space icon to the left of the slider setting, scroll down to select Device CMYK.

Expressed in PostScript and PDF, device CMYK is rendered by the numbers in the RIP without a CIE colour managed transform.

/hh


Henrik

That is still rendering the text in cmyk which is such a bad idea, especially for small text. Unless fuzzy is the new black.

Peter

Feb 7, 2010 2:33 PM in response to PeterBreis0807

Thank you most kindly Peter,

This has been an enormous help. It seems I'm in for a serious shift in how I do the back end of these films I make. Learning curve. Perhaps with my long relationship with Photoshop, some of that will translate to InDesign.

Somewhere I saw or read recently about a site that has a lot of free tutorials for Adobe Apps. But I wasn't smart enough to write down the URL. Or, mmm, maybe you mentioned it earlier. I'm going to go through this thread carefully again before I start anything.

Thank you again ...

Now time to do my homework...

All the best,

Ben

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Lulu.com & Pages - publishing?

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