A few qns re: how iTunes embed/store/write ID3 tags & album artwork

ralliart12 wrote:
Hi fellows. I've a couple of questions with regards to the subject above. Currently I'm revamping my entire music libray, i.e. tagging, re-tagging, adding artwork, etc

Qn1. if I import a song that has both ID3v1 & ID3v2.x tags into iTunes, when I edit the tags from within iTunes after importing, +which version of the tags on the physical file will get updated?+ Is it:

a. iTunes will be smart & update BOTH v1 & v2.x tags (assume that field is supported on both versions)
b. iTunes will just update the newer, v2.x tags
c. iTunes will totally ignore any embedded ID3 tags & ONLY update it's itl & xml database?

The behaviour is undefined. iTunes works best with a single v2.3 tag. Multiple tags may cause issues. It might be, for example, that it refreshes the first physical tag, but displayes the highest order tag. +(Oops, switch that around if polydorus is correct).+ Certainly I've had cases where tags updates appear to have been applied, but then the original values reappear next time I select the file. Cleaning duplicated tags helped.

Qn2. I often use the "Get Album Artwork" function in iTunes to retrieve album art for imported songs. +How's the physical quality of the album art being retrieved+, i.e. I heard it's very high quality 600*600?

Yes, generally iTunes Store art is 600x600px.

Qn3. After retrieving album art automatically, I right-click on the song(s) > "Get Info" & copy & paste the artwork that was retrieved & click "Okay". +May I verify that this way, the artwork will be indeed, embedded into the physical mp3 file & be iTunes-agnostic?+

Correct. This procedure should also remove the copy held in the *Album Artwork\Download* folder. iTunes will however build another cache at *Album Artwork\Cache* for embedded artwork.

Qn4. Suppose I've the artwork all embedded, +is there anyway I can trash the cache of album artwork stowed away by iTunes+ when it retrieves them automatically? I wouldn't want that cache (which is only useful to iTunes) to accumulate & take up space.

It should only hold art for stuff that isn't yet embedded. You can always delete either cache folder. iTunes will rebuild as and when it needs, either extracting embedded artwork or trying, if you allow, to download when not present.

*Bonus Qn5*: I've a smart playlist in iTunes & it basically consolidates audio podcasts. I'm able to sort it by ascending duration in iTunes, but the version sync-ed up into my iPod always has an order of its own. +May I know how to get the version on my iPod arranged from shortest to most lengthy as well?+

Possibly turning off live-updating may help, but iTunes/iPod seem to behave oddly with podcast ordering.

Side-note: for those who're interested in my workflow, the steps're here.

Where? 🙂

Thanx in advance.

You're welcome, hope it helps.

tt2

Message was edited by: turingtest2

I can't answer everything but here is some of it.

As far as I can tell doing a quick test with a hex editor, iTunes only updates the v2.x tag, not the v1 tag. This is in contrast to editing it in file properties in Windows explorer which appears to update both.

I believe that artwork downloaded from the store is approx 600x600.

Artwork from iTunes is cached in the album artwork folder, not the physical file. This is in contrast to artwork from other sources that is pasted into the track. That is stored in the file and not in the cache.

Not sure about podcasts, I have never synced one to my iPod.

ralliart12 wrote:
... it's a super-dry blog post by me

Haven't managed all the meat of that yet, but two things occur. First you might want to see my notes on album organisation within iTunes at http://www.samsoft.org.uk/iTunes/grouping.asp and if if you're planning to clone your library to multiple systems so you can sync where you happen to be then iTunes Folder Watch and SyncToy 2.1 will prove invaluable tools.

tt2

Is there any reason you're using v1 tags? v2.3 is what most players use the best. iTunes certainly works best with v2.3 tags. I wish there was a setting so I could make it rip using v2.3 instead of v2.2.


I write all my artwork to my files, too. I've deleted the itunes artwork folders numerous times over the years with no bad results (as in, missing artwork) later.

ralliart12 wrote:

If iTunes updates 1 version of ID3 tag BUT displays another, that is some clumsy logic. It's like updating one's residential address but still printing the outdated one as the return address on outgoing snail mail.

Yep, but there it is.

May I know what do you mean by "cleaning duplicated tags"?

Use your 3rd party tag editor to remove the ID3v1 tags so there's only one version for iTunes to worry about in future. If you rip or edit tags using other software make sure it's set to only create a ID3v2.x tag.

How do I verify if "doing it via this process" indeed removes the copy held in "Album Artwork\Download"? From what I've seen the sub-folders within this folder is all randomly named & I can't pinpoint to the exact album (artwork).

Use Properties from Windows Explorer to count the number of files & folders in *iTunes\Album Artwork\Download* then add or remove some downloaded artwork and count again. Yes the naming is obscure, but you don't need to worry about it, these files are only used by iTunes.

Btw, I'm very curious how did u find out "this process" (of embedding the artwork into the physical song file) actually makes iTunes removes its' "retrieved" copy stowed away inside "Album Artwork\Download"?

My file-level backup show when individual files have been removed from the source folders. Sometime I notice that files are being removed from *iTunes\Album Artwork\Download*.

U mean "\iTunes\Album Artwork\Download" & "\iTunes\Album Artwork\Cache" are entirely safe to be deleted, BUT these exact 2 folders will be re-created if I restore my library on another computer?

They will start to be rebuilt the next time you open iTunes on this or any computer.

May I know the purpose of these 2 folders anyway?

iTunes uses the *Album Artwork* folder to provide rapid access to the artwork it displays on screen. As you browse through your library iTunes first looks for art in the cache (download & cache folders) then, if not found, checks for embedded art in each track of the album, then, if still not found and your options allow, it will try to automatically download from the store. It builds the cache so that next time it will be able to display the image more quickly.

... that is exactly the reason why even after retrieving the albuma artwork automatically from within iTunes, I still "Get Info" a song, copy the Artwork that is downloaded and now present in the right-most "Artwork" tab & paste it again. This, as vouched by turingtest2, will really embed the artwork into the physical file's ID3 tags. I copy the same file to another random, newly created Windows folder & the artwork showed up.

There's an easier way to do this. Make sure you're in the list view with the artwork box visible lower left & set to *Selected Item*. Fetch artwork, right-click on image & copy, select all tracks from the album, Get Info. and paste into artwork box on Info tab. This last action replaces any & all images currently embedded or downloaded in all selected files so can also be used to embed a copy of the store art or replace any existing images with a better version that you find online.

Should you need/want to embedded multiple images, e.g. front & back covers, these can also be pasted onto that box in one session in the order 2,3...n,1 so the last image you paste will be the left-most and default image. You can also add to the existing set of embedded images for a number of files by selecting them and droping the images onto the *Selected Item* artwork box.

If you still have some downloaded art and would like to be sure that all of it becomes emdedded try Robert Jacobson's script iTunesInsertArtwork. You'll need to tweak the version test in the code from Version 7 to Version 9 so that it can run.
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U mean you suggest I uncheck "Live Updating" in my smart playlist rules on my computer's iTunes application?

Yes - this may help your iPod hold your smart playlist in the order you want, but I can't guarantee. The idea would be that you turn off *Live updating* before your sync, then turn if back on again afterwards. I'm not sure otherwise how you trigger the list to update, though it may well be possible. When it matters to me to have a particular set of podcasts in a specific order I create a regular playlist just for that purpose.
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I am currently using DropBox to host my iTunes libray's itl & xml files in conjunction to the "Automatically add to library" function in iTunes 9 to accomplish what I want.

The Album Artwork folder and the other files in the top level iTunes folder are also part of the "library" and so should ideally be backed-up/cloned for trouble free operation.

tt2

ralliart12 wrote:

I suppose u mean when iTunes import CDs, it will use v2.2 to tag? Yah, that is queer, when iTunes is capable of reading v2.3
I wonder what's (th)e logic?

Don't expect logic...

I suppose you are gonna recommend "MP3Tag" for all these intensive tag-editing? Maybe one day I'll get around to doing it; but currently, there's no pressing reason to force me to intentionally remove v1 tags

No probs, just do it for those files that refuse to update when you want them to. I find MediaMonkey useful for updating tags with more data than the iTunes store provides and it also includes selective *Clean ID3vX* tools.

I just messed around within this folder, i.e. "\Album Artwork". Man, you wouldn't believe the no. of sub-folders it contains!

Yes I would... 🙂
I've over 5,000 files in 4,000 folders taking up just over 1Gb for my 250GB library. As for the space it uses, less than 0.5% overhead for the cache isn't worth stressing over.

I suppose if iTunes re-build these 2 folders, it will take very long for library over say, 500 albums? Anyway to stop it from even re-building at all?

Probably not that long for 500. No, no way to prevent rebuilding.

So those are literally "cache" in every sense of the word?

Yes.

turingtest2, I know exactly which "box" you are referring to, BUT! I tink pasting here does NOT embed, it only adds artwork to iTunes' proprietary album artwork cache.

I was refering to the *Now Playing/Selected Item* box. Again, I write from experience but feel free to perform your own experiments - it's the best way to find out for sure.

By other files I suppose you mean the 2 itdb files & "sentinel"? Dun worry, my entire library database folder, i.e. \iTunes, is in my cloud already. Only the actual media is in an external hard disk. On the other hand, I tot u mentioned the album artwork folder(s) are easily re-created?

Sure. If it's working for you now then don't worry about it. I don't know how iTunes indexes into those folders but it probably uses the images when building the cache on your iPod/iPhone. If the library "knows" the art exists because it was there on one machine but you then update your device from another which doesn't have the same artwork in the cache you might get unexpected results.

tt2