Recording violin - microphone tips

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Level 5

5,524 points

Recording violin - microphone tips

So I have a little advertising job on at the moment, small budget so I can't justify using the main studio I have access to for recording. I need to record one melody line of violin, which I'm going to do at home using my MBP and Apogee Duet. I'm a pretty experienced composer and I have decent audio engineering chops too, but when it comes to actually recording acoustic instruments myself, I've only every really done vocals, acoustic guitar, some cello and a bunch of miscellaneous percussion etc... usually there's a proper audio engineer around who handles the nuts and bolts of it. I've never recorded violin myself, am not totally clueless on how to go about it, but am just looking for some pointers on how best to go about it before my session musician arrives tomorrow.

The only mic I have at home is a Rode NTK tube mic, have already figured out that it's probably totally wrong for this instrument so I'm going to borrow a small diaphragm condenser, either a Rode from a friend or possibly a KM184 from the studio unless it's being used (which is quite likely).

I'll be recording in a carpeted room, no acoustic treatment, but it's not too small or too big a room so the acoustics are not especially dominating. Ideally I'd like some ideas on where the best sweet spots are for mic placement with violin. Also, is it worth using a crossed pair of mics (at a 90 degree angle) like I've been shown to do before for cello? What is the distance range that I should ideally have the mic(s) from the violin?

Obviously I'll try out a few things and listen for what is working best, but if anyone with experience on this wants to give me a violin-miking 101, then please go right ahead..

Cheers!

MBP C2D 17" 2.33 / 3GB RAM / 500GB 7200rpm, Mac OS X (10.6.1), Logic Studio 9 / UAD2 Solo Laptop / Apogee Duet

Posted on Mar 2, 2010 1:01 AM

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Answer 1

Top-ranking reply

Merula

Level 1

28 points

Mar 2, 2010 6:20 AM in response to tbirdparis

Violinist here.
I get pretty good results from a ribbon microphone. I'm using the Beyerdynamic M160 but there are probably better ones like Royer etc. As for mic placement, generally you don't want to be too close as that will pick up bow surface noise. Ideally have an extra microphone further away and mix the two tracks. The sound is coming out of the two f-holes but you get a sweeter sound from the player's left side where the lower strings are. Make sure that the microphone is places so that the bow does not hit it.
Eq correctly. The amount of sound men I've dealt with that just think treble instrument = high frequencies up, low frequencies down and just get a horrible scratchy tone - practically all of them! If anything, lower the high frequencies, boost the middle and pay attention to 200hz up. Watch out for bow noise lower than this but experiment with lower frequencies for a mellow tone.

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Answer 2

tbirdparis Author

Level 5

5,524 points

Mar 2, 2010 9:12 AM in response to Merula

Thanks for those pointers.. will take it all into account. I've been around quite a few orchestra recording sessions but to be honest I've always been too focused on other things to really pay any attention to how the engineers set the mics up.
I'm going to use 2 mics, but I don't have access to a ribbon mic so that's ruled out right there. Do you have any experience of recording with the mics set up in a crossover position at a 90 degree angle? I've gotten a very good sound from cello doing this, but am wondering if it will work for violin as well...

Thanks again for the input, if there are any audio engineers with technique to share, I'd be keen to hear that as well.

Cheers.

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Answer 3

Mar 2, 2010 10:00 AM in response to tbirdparis

I'll second all of what Merula has said. I've recorded a lot of violin over the years, and all of what he had to offer is pretty much spot on.

If you don't have access to a ribbon mic, you could try a small diaphragm condenser. The key is distance. Micing to close will indeed cause "harshness".

Recording stereo, in an X-Y configuration will certainly work, like it does for an acoustic guitar. Although I personally have never done that on a single violin, and like my own personal preference when recording acoustic guitar, I prefer two mics at different distances, to fully capture the instruments tone in the room.

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Answer 4

tbirdparis Author

Level 5

5,524 points

Mar 2, 2010 11:31 AM in response to Jim Frazier

Thanks Jim, more great advice. I'll be using small diaphragm condensers (2 of them), so I'll try an x-y config and also something with a little more distance between the mics. I won't be recording in a great room, so the room sound might not be all that special, we'll see.

Thanks for the advice!

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Answer 5

Mar 2, 2010 4:01 PM in response to tbirdparis

Here's a good resource with some info on recording solo strings (as well as groups): http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/apr99/articles/recstrings.htm

I have recorded a fair bit of violin and I'd say that in reality, there's not much stereo information emitting from the actual instrument, so going in close range with an XY pattern is not going to gain much.

If you could get in a nicer room, or if your room sounds reasonable, then have 1 mic about 12-18 inches away from the soundboard and put the XY mics out in the room where there will be a natural delay time (regardless of acoustics) and an altogether softer tone.

Then mix them together as desired. Certainly some EQ boost in the mid range is a good idea and I've often had to EQ out the real high frequencies more than you'd think because the violin can be very shrill.

Don't forget the benefits of a very good reverb! Even if it's a short reverb to add space... it really brings the instrument to life.

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Answer 6

tbirdparis Author

Level 5

5,524 points

Mar 2, 2010 11:42 PM in response to siderealxxx

Thanks for that reminder.. actually I bought that issue of SOS, so I'll look over it again today.
I think you're prob right about the limited value of a dual mic recording, but I actually think the room (while not acoustically treated) might sound reasonably nice, so I'm going to give it a shot, see what happens.

In any case, I now know I need to pay more attention when I'm with an audio engineer to learn more technique... we composers end up doing a lot more hands-on recording these days so I have to remember to take a mental photo of mix positioning next time I'm in an orchestral session or something similar..

Cheers everyone..

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Answer 7

Mar 3, 2010 7:43 AM in response to tbirdparis

When I record violin in my home studio, I copy what engineers do in pro studios. I have never seen violin recorded in stereo, because it generates a fairly mono sound. The mic is placed anywhere from 2-3 feet above and roughly centered on the instrument. Mic choice is critical because of the tendency to pick up too much rosin and "screech" from the bow. Someone mentioned using a ribbon which could yield a nice warm sound. A KM184 would probably be too bright, but its predecessors, the 84 or 54 would be good choices. I usually see tube condensers which don't accentuate the 4-6 khz region being used, but as always, experimentation will be necessary.

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Answer 8

timkertoy

Level 2

231 points

Mar 3, 2010 7:53 AM in response to Piano Man

I agree that the KM184 will probably be too bright. That mic is notorious for it's high freq 'bump', and it's the reason the original KM84's are still ascending in value on ebay...

For what it's worth, I'd personally go with a tube mic (though maybe not the Rode) several feet away, and go spend $100 on a cheap ribbon mic like the Apex 205 or the Cascade Fathead. There are some very useable low cost ribbons around these days, and you're going to need one sooner or later. Recording strings is one of the things ribbons excel at.

Or rent a Royer for the day. Then record with both the condenser and the ribbon, and you can decide later which sound you prefer (or even blend both).

That's my advice anyway, FWIW.

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Answer 9

tbirdparis Author

Level 5

5,524 points

Mar 3, 2010 10:18 AM in response to timkertoy

Actually they are KM84s at the studio, not 184s.. But I didn't end up using them anyway, I borrowed a pair of small diaphragm Rode mics from a friend. Yes I know, they aren't exactly stellar mics, but it turned out lovely.

If anyone is interested, I ended up going for an x-y config, with one mic targeting the area just over the top of the violin around the sound hole thingy from the left side, with the other one crossing over to catch some resonance from the wall beside. At first I tried from a fair distance away but ended up coming in a little closer than I expected (still about 15 inches away or so), which is where there seemed to be a sweet spot. As for the second mic, not sure how much of it I'll use in the mix, but I'm glad I went to the trouble of capturing some ambience, I think it sounds quite nice.

Overall as a recording it turned out pretty lovely sounding. But to be honest, the player was so very good that it reminded me of what people say about classic old recordings.. the quality of the recording itself definitely takes second place to a marvelous performance.

Thanks for all the pointers everyone.

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