Keyword vs tag

man, I am bummed. I imported a 30K library from iPhoto, many of which were tagged, labeled etc. There were a few thousand I had planned on tagging once in Aperture.

In iPhoto, there were shortcut keys that you could apply to the tags... it made tagging very easy. No mousing around, dragging and dropping. Just hit the keys you want and boom, it was tagged. Next photo, etc. I could rip through 100s of photos in no time just typing the shortcut associated (d for daughter, s for sun, C for California, etc.).

Aperture's keyword handling is great for when you are processing a job you have just finished (I guess), but you are limited to 8 shortcuts in the Keyword control panel. That's just lame. I am usually tagging family members, artwork and so forth from a fairly limited set of 20 to 30 tags I regularly use. The more obscure tags / keywords I apply after tagging the standards.

At any rate, I'm disappointed in this omission by Apple. 8 keyboard shortcuts for tags is practically useless (and almost insulting). Give us a way to add as many shortcuts as we want so we can quickly tag without having to mouse around, search for, drag, drop keywords.

Anyone else finding this annoying?

8 Core 3.0 Intel Xeon Mac Pro / MBP / PBG4 / PB12"/ macmini / 30" display n mor, Mac OS X (10.6.2)

Posted on Mar 9, 2010 12:11 PM

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16 replies

Mar 9, 2010 12:58 PM in response to macguyincali

From the user guide:

Choosing a Keyword Preset Group
Aperture provides groups of related keywords in sets that you can easily select and use. A group of related keywords is called a keyword preset group. You can select a keyword preset group whenever you need it, and you can create your own keyword preset groups that include keywords you frequently use.
When you choose a keyword preset group, Aperture assigns the specific keywords to keyword buttons in the control bar. This allows you to set the control bar to show the most useful keywords.

Mar 9, 2010 8:52 PM in response to pvonk

Well, I actually did read that (its the first place I looked) and referenced it above. It only gives you 9 keyboard shortcuts at one time, which is kind of a drag. You have to switch (using the mouse) through multiple sets if you want to be able to tag more than 9 at a time using shortcuts (which sort of defeats the purpose). With iPhoto I could hammer through hundreds of pictures and tag them without touching my mouse at all. I had keys assigned to my 30-40 or so of my most commonly used tags so that when going through each photo all I had to do was press 'd' for daughter or 'w' for wife or 'c' for california etc. then the right arrow to go the next one. Aperture is much more unwieldy. There is absolutely no way to do this without multiple mouse clicks, drags or even typing into the search box in the control panel or HUD. Sure maybe your top 9 keywords have shortcuts, but that is just not enough.

While we're at it, A3 doesn't seem to have a very intuitive way to navigate through events / folders without having to resort to using the mouse. You HAVE to double click on an image to maximize it, there's no space bar, RETURN or ENTER key that will do that. It's ludicrous really.

Lastly the program crashes at least a once every time I use it. I really want to like the program but find it hard to use, unintuitive and buggy. I have 2 more days left on the trial... it has so much to offer but it is leaving me very frustrated. I have a personal library of 30K images and a business-related library of 10K. I need to be able to process large amounts of images quickly without tons of mousing around. Aperture doesn't seem to offer that functionality quite yet.

-macguyincali

Mar 10, 2010 12:48 AM in response to macguyincali

macguyincali wrote:
You have to switch (using the mouse) through multiple sets if you want to be able to tag more than 9 at a time using shortcuts (which sort of defeats the purpose).


If you go to Aperture>Commands>Customize... you can assign keyboard shortcuts to swap between keyword button groups. It's still not as handy as having several dozen shortcuts at the same time, but the mouse is not necessary. You'd also be cutting into Aperture's own shortcuts with that many single-key shortcuts which could be an issue.

While we're at it, A3 doesn't seem to have a very intuitive way to navigate through events / folders without having to resort to using the mouse. You HAVE to double click on an image to maximize it, there's no space bar, RETURN or ENTER key that will do that. It's ludicrous really.


Like Terence has pointed out, 'V' will cycle through Browser, Browser-and-Viewer, Viewer.

For navigating through Projects etc, Tab will swap keyboard focus between the Browser pane and the Project pane, allowing you to navigate through images or through containers using the arrow keys. That said, I'm not aware of a non-mouse method to open closed containers. 😟

Crashes I can't comment on, having only seen a couple since upgrading to 3.0.1 and the ProKit update.

Ian

Mar 11, 2010 4:08 PM in response to macguyincali

macguyincali wrote:
man, I am bummed. {Much snipped.}
At any rate, I'm disappointed in this omission by Apple. 8 keyboard shortcuts for tags is practically useless (and almost insulting). Give us a way to add as many shortcuts as we want so we can quickly tag without having to mouse around, search for, drag, drop keywords.

Anyone else finding this annoying?


Yes. Keywording was easy in iPhoto. Like you, I had forty or so often-used keywords, all assigned to shortcuts. It was even easy using the mouse, because the keywords were presented in a grid to select.

It is ALSO easy in Ap3 (the only version I know). Every keyword is short-cutted.

Just bring up the New Keyword entry field (a few ways to do this; +"Metadata>>New Keyword"+ will do it and show you the shortcut), and start typing keywords. Everytime you've narrowed to the keyword you want, press " Enter" and start a new keyword.

This can be very fast -- and isn't limited to buttons or assigned short-cuts. I don't know why this functionality isn't built into the Keyword HUD.

Note that there are other useful tools on the Control Bar.

Message was edited by: Kirby Krieger

Mar 11, 2010 8:47 PM in response to Kirby Krieger

I'll experiment some more with it, although I haven't quite gotten it to work as smoothly as in iPhoto (weird, for a pro-level app that costs $200). One thing I notice in the New Keyword Entry field is that once you're in the text field entering stuff, you have to get out of the field in order to do anything. This requires clicking with the mouse outside the box. It was alot easier in iPhoto, one hand on the arrow key and the other hand simply clicking one of the many tag shortcuts I use. Now, my hand has to leave the keyboard pretty often.

Also, it occasionally gives me the spinning rainbow ball of death when I perform Keyword changes on large numbers of images using the New Keyword Entry Field (I'm actually posting this while I wait for spinning ball to go away). And lastly, AP3 crashes completely (app closes abruptly) when I'm Editing the Keyword Buttons. It happens pretty often.

In a word, it is not Apple-like simplicity.

Mar 11, 2010 9:14 PM in response to macguyincali

"Tab" moves the focus to the next control. To where do you want to move the focus?

A few additional notes:

You can have up to 20 keyword buttons (at least, I did on a wide-screen monitor) on the Control Bar -- just keep adding them to any of the button sets. For me, this works v. well -- I use a standard set to track where an image in my workflow, and these are both readily available and -- unlike colored labels -- assigning one doesn't un-assign another.

You can remove a keyword by Shift-clicking a keyword button

You can also remove keywords by entering the keyword in the Add Keyword field in the Control Bar and then typing {Shift}+{Enter}.

You can use the lift & stamp tools to apply keywords from one image to others. You can edit the keywords applied.

Ap3 is complex. What I'm finding is that it is quite customizable. Remember, in iPhoto you are quite limited in what you can do and how you do it. Its great achievement is making that natural. Aperture is a whole different league. It is -- imho -- at least an order of magnitude more complex. It's not iPhoto. It will require learning a lot of new ways of working, and tailoring it to your needs.

My install is pretty stable. Occasionally slow. Hasn't crashed since 3.0.1 and the Pro update. Sorry to hear of your problems.

Mar 12, 2010 9:04 PM in response to macguyincali

Well, I seem to have pinpointed the situations that make AP3 crash for me:

1) when I'm editing keyword button sets. If I reorder more than 2 or 3 buttons in one session that are already in a group, when I press 'done,' AP3 crashes and closes immediately, losing any changes I've made to the button set. I've replicated this dozens of times.

2) when editing Manage my Places, on several occasions the whole program would freeze up for minutes at a time. At one point, Aperture would not open at all, increasingly eating up the memory (up to 14GB per Activity Monitor) until it would slow down the whole system. I'll post my solution in my other discussion.

Still not satisfied with the keyboard navigation in AP3, although the hints offered above have been helpful. Its silly, I've been using AP3 for a few weeks and I've had SO many problems. I think I'm starting to get a handle on the inexplicable crashes, though, which is good (I know what to avoid doing).

Mar 15, 2010 4:00 PM in response to macguyincali

Is anyone getting the pulldown menu glitch in the Command Bar? Sometimes (pretty often actually) when I'm scrolling through keywords in the Add Keyword field, the scrolling popup window stays on screen permanently. No matter what view I'm in... browser, split, etc. Even in Full Screen. Which is weird. I've submitted a bug report, but I wonder if I'm not missing something.

----

re: the keyword implementation, I think they could have made it much smoother to apply multiple keyword shortcuts ala iPhoto... using the Keyword HUD. When the HUD is activated, the keyword keyboard shortcuts would be activated as well and you could apply as many as you wanted. By tying them to the HUD, you wouldn't interfere with the many other system shortcuts that Ap3 uses. That way, when you're in keyword mode (tagging mode) you have anywhere from 26 to 52 shortcuts available (alphabet lower and upper case). You simply deactivate the HUD if you want to make other adjustments. Also, keywords should be toggled so you type a keyword and it appears (or disappears if already applied). Having to rapidly type Command-Shift-8 to untag something is kind of annoying.

Enough of my whining. I've already sent requests to apple about these things, but maybe I'm the lone idiot who cares about this. I still feel it was worth the money, though and I am truly enjoying Ap3's functionality otherwise.

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Keyword vs tag

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