recordings in high resolution

I would like to record myself playing guitar so that I can review my fingerings and posture, etc. in Quicktime X. I have a decent USB microphone that I bought for the purpose, and then I started using the iSight in my 24" LED Cinema Display for the video. As far as webcams go, it's good. It can be changed to higher resolution settings, but it's still just a webcam with a sensor half the size of a grain of rice.

Everywhere I ask, I have been told that a higher resolution device or with a larger sensor can only be found in a DV camcorder with firewire, since USB does not have the capability to carry a bigger signal. I am not asking for a bigger signal; I just want low light sensitivity to be improved over a webcam with its cheap plasticky lens and tiny little sensor.

Is there such a thing as a large-sensor webcam?

I have been thinking for years that I could just hook up any digital camera to the usb port and get an instant webcam, but every sales person I have spoken with has said it is not possible. It seems to me like building cars that only make left-turns. It looks like several models in the early 'aughts were capable of of this function, but it is no longer advertised.

If you use a digital camera or flash memory camcorder as a webcam for its large sensor and low light sensitivity, which one do you use? Why?

Are there HD security cams with USB that will capture directly to Quicktime?

I still have the original iSight external firewire webcam. Is it technically better or more sensitive than the ones built into current machines?

MBP + 24" CD w/LED, Mac OS X (10.6.2)

Posted on Mar 11, 2010 11:16 PM

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10 replies

Mar 12, 2010 8:10 AM in response to David Lewis15

You say that you are not looking for a "bigger signal" but you would like higher resolution. A DV camera has a bitrate of around 15mbits/sec. This is too high for USB.

The current isight has a resolution of 1280x1024. This is a high resolution.

Now if you mean that you want better image quality because of low light, you need one or both of these:
1. More light
2. Bigger lens

That has nothing to do with the sensor resolution.

Mar 12, 2010 8:43 AM in response to David Lewis15

David Lewis15 wrote:
... I am not asking for a bigger signal; I just want low light sensitivity to be improved over a webcam with its cheap plasticky lens and tiny little sensor.


If you cannot add more light where you are recording video, this add on can let you manually control some camera parameters that are normally automatically managed by the software you use with your camera:

http://www.ecamm.com/mac/iglasses/



Is there such a thing as a large-sensor webcam?


When dealing with optical sensors, "large" can refer to pixel count rather than physical size. In this sense, yes, your LED Display's built-in iSight is "larger" than your old Firewire external iSight.

All external iSights and some of the early inbuilt ones were 640x480 cameras. The iSight built into my MacBook Pro and LED Display have 1.3MP (1,280x1,024 pixels.) To be certain whether your iSight is the 1.3MP camera or the older Ø.3MP version, you can use the test explained in this page.

Logitech is now advertising webcams with 2MP sensors like this one. You may be interested in reading this Logitech page about webcam image quality:

http://www.logitech.com/index.cfm/69/6027&cl=us,en

Other brands may also offer "larger" sensors. Ask your retailer or look at the specifications for any webcam that interests you.

However, understand that software runs all webcams. Therefore, even if you buy a higher resolution camera, you only get higher resolution images if the Mac software applications you use for video can access the additional pixels. You must verify compatibility between the hardware, software, and Mac OS you plan to use in order for increased resolution to be meaningful.



... If you use a digital camera or flash memory camcorder as a webcam for its large sensor and low light sensitivity, which one do you use? Why?


I think that webcam functions must be built into the hardware. Some older Kodak digital still cameras I have seen offered a webcam setting that was explained in the camera's user manual. I do not know of any flash memory camcorder that works as a webcam.

If you do not have a camera that offers "webcam" output, you can use an analog-digital converter with any camera that offers analog video output (like that that is used by analog television and VCRs.) Depending on your needs, a converter like one of these may serve your needs:

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TJ555LL/A

http://store.apple.com/us/product/TS561LL/A

http://www.videomaker.com/article/8642/

Because of the cost involved, you may want to ask your retailer for help when evaluating or selecting this kind of equipment.



Are there HD security cams with USB that will capture directly to Quicktime?


http://lmgtfy.com/?q=HDsecurity+camera+cam+USBQuicktime

The seller can help you decided which, if any, of the models he offers meet all your requirements.



I still have the original iSight external firewire webcam. Is it technically better or more sensitive than the ones built into current machines?


No, I don't think so. Internal and external iSights are different.

I, too, have both internal and external iSights. Depending on the specific way you will use a webcam, both can offer advantages. However, you will notice differences in resolution, sharpness, color balance, flexibility of use, etc.

Because you have both cameras, the best way to determine what is "better or more sensitive" _for your purpose_ it to test with both and use the camera that you like best.

EZ Jim



Mac Pro Quad Core (Early 2009) 2.93Ghz w/Mac OS X (10.6.2)  MacBook Pro (13 inch, Mid 2009) 2.26GHz (10.6.2)
LED Cinema Display  G4 PowerBook 1.67GHz (10.4.11)  iBookSE 366MHz (10.3.9)  External iSight

Mar 15, 2010 6:28 AM in response to EZ Jim

I appreciate your answers, but when I wrote "large sensor", I was not referring to megapixels.

Take a look at the Nikon D3, for example. The sensor is the size of a frame of 35mm still picture film, but has only 12 megapixels, a lower count than most point and shoot cameras. Each photosite is responsible for a far larger area for the same image, and can accept far less incoming light to produce an image. It is the exact opposite of the "more megapixels is better" argument. The size of the sensor is also necessarily large for producing depth of field, but you can google that.

Please refer to this site: http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

I would like a camera that functions as a webcam that also has a decent lens and physically larger sensor. As far as megapixels go, it would need to be only 2.0 or so to achieve even a 1080p video. I want 720p, but I'll take 1080p if it's possible. This can be achieved though compression from the digital camera's original much higher definition sensor output for still images.

In the end, I am surprised that folks have been dealing with crappy webcams. I have never used them until recently to review my technique, and I cannot usually see individual strings in the image. I have trouble believing that there isn't something better out there.

Mar 15, 2010 7:05 AM in response to Jeremy Hansen

There are plenty of webcams with 2.0+ megapixel resolution that have HD. All of them have tiny little sensors that are crappy in low light. I want exactly the same format with a bigger sensor but the same number of megapixels.

I just want to know WHICH camera you use for the same thing. Like I said, I cannot believe such a thing does not exist.

I am not asking this to get into a gear debate, and I am not clueless. I know that a MiniDV camcorder is actually what I want and need, but I would prefer a webcam format to keep it compact, especially since I have no use for the tape drive. The newer tiny flash camcorders don't have firewire, though. I just can't believe that none of them have USB-streaming. I HAD a Sony camcorder in 2003 that had USB-streaming.

Mar 15, 2010 10:56 AM in response to David Lewis15

David Lewis15 wrote:
I appreciate your answers, ...


You're welcome.



< ... but when I wrote "large sensor", I was not referring to megapixels.

Then the answer to your question is that threre are no "large sensor" webcams.



Take a look at the Nikon D3, for example. ... I would like a camera that functions as a webcam that also has a decent lens and physically larger sensor.


For decent lenses and a sensor that is physically even larger than the Nikon D3, consider the Hasselblad H4D. However, whether comparing to Hassleblad or the Nikon's smaller-sized sensor, the cost of webcam sensors is insignificant. Because what you want does not exist, the practical alternative is to buy more than one camera so you have the correct tool for each need.

Given the low cost of webcams, they cannot be expected to provide images of Nikon D3 or even high-definition camcorder quality.

Perhaps you are merely wishing for more features than can be packed into a single consumer electronics device like a webcam. For instance, if you need a webcam for use in low light situations where you cannot simply add more light, consider adding a dedicated low-light webcams such as the Panasonic BL-C131. (Other low-light webcams are available from other manufacturers.) Individual camera solutions are available for a wide variety of tasks, but your search for one webcam that is perfect for every need will be futile.

If physical sensor size is you issue, whether your you want sizes like those found in a Sony camcorder that had USB-streaming or a Nikon D3, until someone offers "a bigger sensor but the same number of megapixels" webcam, your only alternative to doing without is to use your webcam for webcam tasks and to add a non-webcam camera whose sensor is the size you want when a larger sensor is actually required.

EZ Jim



Mac Pro Quad Core (Early 2009) 2.93Ghz w/Mac OS X (10.6.2)  MacBook Pro (13 inch, Mid 2009) 2.26GHz (10.6.2)
LED Cinema Display  G4 PowerBook 1.67GHz (10.4.11)  iBookSE 366MHz (10.3.9)  External iSight

Mar 17, 2010 7:20 PM in response to EZ Jim

Thanks. I bought the Sony Webbie HD after reading that it has USB-streaming. I thought that I had hit the jackpot until I found out that OSX does not support USB streaming. I returned it.

This: http://www.ptgrey.com/usb3/#/usb3.0_camera/pointgrey's usb_3.0_prototypecamera is the jackpot. Buy Macs don't have USB3 yet.

Point Grey and other manufacturers make industrial firewire cameras for whatever reason, and they have detachable lenses, but they're not available to the general public, and I'm not sure they're quicktime compatible anyway.

It's sad the firewire webcam category is gone, because with firewire 800, HD would be so easy.

Mar 18, 2010 7:08 AM in response to David Lewis15

David Lewis15 wrote:
Thanks. ...


You're welcome, and thanks for the star letting me know what you found helpful.



... I found out that OSX does not support USB streaming. ...


I am not sure where you "found out" that, but, unless I misunderstand "USB streaming", I do not think it is true.

The Sony Webbie HD and the software that Sony bundles with it may not work with your Mac's application software, but that is because of the way Sony makes the Webbie, not because of some underlying limitation of OS X.

Over the years, Sony has made some GREAT camcorders that are completely Mac-compatible (I own two), but they have also made some that are NOT Mac compatible. From what you say, the Webbie may be one of the latter.

Your experience highlights the need to check both System Requirements and application compatibility before you buy to avoid disappointment.



It's sad the firewire webcam category is gone, because with firewire 800, HD would be so easy.


???

There may be others, but my quick search revealed a couple:

http://www.cwol.com/firewire-cameras/fire-i-webcam-unibrain.htm

http://www.welovemacs.com/isweet1.html

Although they ARE Firewire (400) webcams, these are NOT clones of external iSight, so carefully check System Requirements, software compatibility, warranty, and device features before buying.

EZ Jim



MacPro QuadCore(Early 2009) 2.93Ghz w/MacOSX (10.6.2)  MacBookPro(13inch,Mid2009) 2.26GHz(10.6.2)
LED Cinema Display  G4PowerBook1.67GHz(10.4.11)  iBookSE366MHz(10.3.9)  External iSight

Apr 5, 2010 4:28 PM in response to David Lewis15

David Lewis15 wrote:
I decided on the Panasonic GH1 and an adapter to make use of my Leica lenses.


Thanks for letting us know!




Mac Pro Quad Core (Early 2009) 2.93Ghz w/Mac OS X (10.6.3)  MacBook Pro (13 inch, Mid 2009) 2.26GHz (10.6.3)
LED Cinema Display  G4 PowerBook 1.67GHz (10.4.11)  iBookSE 366MHz (10.3.9)  External iSight

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recordings in high resolution

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