Victim of fraud and Apple's inability to help. Suggestions?

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Level 1

9 points

Victim of fraud and Apple's inability to help. Suggestions?

Firstly, here's briefly what's happened. Over the weekend, my account was compromised and I received transaction 3 invoices for similar amounts. 2 of them went straight through but for some reason the third was blocked. This left 2 fraudulent transactions complete and paid for by my stored debit card, and one as an unpaid balance.

What's also happened is the location and language of the store has changed to Chinese and there are 2 more 'authorised' computers that can use my account.

(You would think that this sort of account behaviour would flag something up, but no)

I should also state that my passwords never have any personal relevance, nor do I use even SIMILAR ones on sites that look like they could be security issues. This security breach MUST have happened within Apple, which is a little scary.

Anyway...

- I have contacted my bank who have advised me that the refund needs to be dealt with by Apple, as the fraud actually happened within my account.
- I have contacted the police who have visited me, also stating that they believe Apple are liable for my refund
- I have provided extensive information and guidance to Apple customer care team regarding invoices and purchases.
- I have canceled my payment card with my bank.
- I have changed my iTunes account password.
- I have spent valuable hours on the phone and on email trying to resolve this very serious issue.

I have been unable to talk to ANYONE in iTunes support over the phone, and AppleCare have escalated the problem to apparently the 'highest person' they can ("Ralf"). This person still refuses to talk to me on the phone, or hand me over to anyone who will.

The one person I did talk to (Ricardo Silva) in Apple's support center did promise me a refund, but of course there's no record of this in his notes according to Ralf.

I have requested that they cancel the pending payment, refund the two that have gone through, and remove the 'authorised' computers (they won't provide me with info on these for some reason, I want to pass info on to the police). I've also asked for details on how this security issue could have occurred.

The response was basically (despite explaining that the bank refuse to deal with the financial loss due to the fraud being on Apple's side of the fence)
- Get in touch with your bank to get money refunded
- (this may make you laugh in disbelief) PAY THE OUTSTANDING BALANCE (yes, the FRAUDULENT order) and they'll refund that charge to me

Now, I'm not really too keen on the idea of paying for some guy in China's fraudulent purchase on my account, but they refuse to change the location or do anything with the authorised computers until I do this. They also just keep pasting Apple's privacy policy instead of giving me any definitive answer on the security issues I believe there are.

This problem is clearly Apple's and NOT my bank's. I also think Apple are breaking the law as they haven't given any DUTY OF CARE and are ignoring the DISTANCE SELLING REGULATIONS.

I just want to talk to somebody who will solve this problem!

I'm a loyal, generally very happy Apple customer and I'm being treated like &@%^. Simple as that.

Does ANYONE have any suggestions of who I can talk to and what I can do? It feels like I'm not being taken seriously and I can't believe that Apple and iTunes don't have a decent set of procedures for matters like this. HELP!

Many thanks,

Matt

iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.2)

Posted on Mar 17, 2010 9:14 AM

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Answer 1

roaminggnome

Level 10

106,407 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:48 AM in response to mattshawuk

"Also, if they can refund a payment I have to make on behalf of the fraudsters (Apple assumes I have the money remaining in my account after what's gone on), why can't they refund the payments already placed?"

The same reason that Wal-Mart would not refund you for the cd's purchased with your card. Apple has paid the artist/label for the download, the download has been delivered. It is up to the banks fraud protection program to give you the money back.

Believe me, I know this is not a good situation, but in my experience the bank does handle these sorts of things.

Unfortunately the terms of use we all agree to covers this:

" You are entirely responsible for all activities that occur on or through your Account, and you agree to immediately notify iTunes of any unauthorised use of your Account or any other breach of security. iTunes shall not be responsible for any losses arising out of the unauthorised use of your Account which is not due to the negligence of iTunes."

I imagine it would be all but impossible to prove that itunes was negligent as millions of users never have an issue.

Push your bank to see if they can help.

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Answer 2

Chris CA

Level 10

82,681 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:59 AM in response to mattshawuk

Sometimes you wish they'd just imagine themselves in this position.

Definitely frustrating but you have to remember that your bank approved and guaranteed the charges when they were made. You pay interest and retailers pay 2%-3% of purchases to the CC company for the CC company to guarantee the charges.

They say they'll refund it immediately but does this sound normal?

Don't know if it sounds "normal" but others have stated the refund from Apple was made right away.
I would make sure to get an email from the iTunes store stating they will refund, just to be sure.

Also, I don't leave my CC info in my iTunes account.
If I want to make a purchase, I add the info, make the purchase then immediately delete the CC details.

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Answer 3

Chris CA

Level 10

82,681 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:46 AM in response to mattshawuk

Since your bank approved & guaranteed the charges when they were made, you need to dispute the charges with your bank.
Let them deal with the retailer (Apple).

This is standard procedure for dealing with fraudulent purchases.
Review your debit/credit card agreements.

Also, see these
-> http://www.cardwatch.org.uk/
-> http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/personalfinance/consumertips/banking/6338659/ Bank-payments-13-months-to-dispute-suspicious-transactions.html
-> http://www.creditcardanswers.co.uk/what-to-do-when-the-victim-of-credit-card-fra ud.html
-> http://www.barclaycard.co.uk/personal-home/credit-guidance/fraud-guide/index.htm l

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Answer 4

roaminggnome

Level 10

106,407 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:34 AM in response to mattshawuk

Sorry about your problem.

It seems to me that it is the banks issue. If your card were stolen and used to purchase cd's at Wal-Mart or Best Buy, then it wouldn't be up to Wal-Mart or Best Buy to resolve, it would be up to the bank who issued the card.

You can find many posts here that deal with this. Perhaps you can try a forum search and read what others have said.

The outcome has been the same, it has been the card issuers who need to deal with this. Maybe you can find way to get more satisfaction.

Hope it works out for you.

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Answer 5

mattshawuk Author

Level 1

9 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:41 AM in response to roaminggnome

I would normally agree, but my card hasn't been stolen, essentially my account details have, which is in Apple's court.

Also, if they can refund a payment I have to make on behalf of the fraudsters (Apple assumes I have the money remaining in my account after what's gone on), why can't they refund the payments already placed?

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Answer 6

mattshawuk Author

Level 1

9 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:51 AM in response to Chris CA

Thanks Chris, I'll review these links and get on to my bank again... I've definitely focused most of my attention and stress on Apple, probably due to their passive and awful responses so far... Sometimes you wish they'd just imagine themselves in this position.

Anyway...

Any advice on this third unpaid charge that the guy who accessed my account made? I'm still very wary of putting in new card details so an order that someone else placed can go through... They say they'll refund it immediately but does this sound normal?

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Answer 7

mattshawuk Author

Level 1

9 points

Mar 17, 2010 9:56 AM in response to roaminggnome

Thanks for the reply Mr Gnome ... that's made it a lot clearer for me. I wish Apple had done that 2 days ago.

I'd be willing to have a good go at proving that iTunes has been negligent if this hadn't sapped my energy! I'm so disappointed to be pushed away with copy-and-paste replies from a company I respected and recommended.

Anyway enough sobbing! Thanks again

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Answer 8

mattshawuk Author

Level 1

9 points

Mar 17, 2010 10:03 AM in response to Chris CA

Also, I don't leave my CC info in my iTunes account.

Yes - I won't be making that mistake again... so much for easy iPhone App purchases but oh well!

Thanks again for your help, it's much appreciated and I'll let you know the outcome with the bank. If it's good I owe you a beer!

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Answer 9

mattshawuk Author

Level 1

9 points

Mar 18, 2010 4:55 AM in response to mattshawuk

Bank seemed a lot more helpful this time and are going to send declarations etc so I finally feel like I'm getting somewhere... Still unsure about this 'pending payment' with Apple but will keep at it.

Thanks for people's help and reassurance.

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Answer 10

Mar 18, 2010 11:44 AM in response to mattshawuk

I am in a similar but slightly different situation which has the same end result - we are both out of pocket because of Apple iTunes and have been let down by Customer Services!

My son was given a gift voucher for Christmas and when he tried to redeem it recently (having waited patiently until the new album he wanted had been released ....), he discovered that the voucher had not been activated at point of purchase - by his grandma three months ago!!

You can guess what comes next?? On contacting "Customer Services", I was advised that nothing could be done without a sales receipt. Now I wonder - who would keep a sales receipt for a gift voucher?Its not like you need to take it back because it doesn't fit!!

OK I understand the implication is that it has been stolen but unless that can be proven, I think some judgement could be made on the veracity of the claim. As I stated to Apple - if this happens frequently then a) Apple are making a whole lot of momney for free and b) they hve a problem at point of sale if assistants are letting the cards be purchased without activating them. If it doesn't happen often then be prepared to listen to the customer and make a judgement call.

As it is, Apple has $25 of my mother's money, my son hasn't got his new abum and I have been genuinely shocked by the curt and downright dismissive tone ot the final email I recived on the subject - see below:
+*"Since all information regarding this request have already been provided, any additional emails from you regarding this issue without a copy of the receipt will not receive a response from iTunes Store Customer Support.*+

+Best Regards,+
Ronald
+iTunes Store Senior Advisor+
California

Nice, eh???

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Answer 11

varjak paw

Level 10

182,692 points

Mar 18, 2010 12:21 PM in response to Firefly157

Sorry, but you're expecting something from Apple that it not reasonable to expect.

If the store from which the card was purchased failed to activate the card, then it was the fault of the vendor and it would be up to the vendor to correct the problem. As you yourself say, without a sales receipt Apple has no way of knowing whether the card was legitimately purchased. This is standard with gift cards for any company when sold through many outlets; activation is often required, and if the store fails to activate the card, it's the store's responsibility. It's not Apple's fault the receipt wasn't kept.

If Grandma didn't save the receipt, you can try going back to the store she purchased the card from and see if they can do anything for you, but again, without a receipt, don't expect anything since again they will have no way of knowing that the card hadn't been shoplifted (and before you flip out, I'm not accusing Grandma of stealing the card, but the store won't know that she, or you, didn't).

Note that it's not up to any vendor to provide that an item was stolen; that's a total impossibility which is why gift cards often require activation. It's up to you, the consumer, to prove that the item was legitimately purchased.

Message was edited by: Dave Sawyer

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Answer 12

Mar 21, 2010 11:46 AM in response to varjak paw

I can understand your rationale, Dave, and grudgingly accept your comments. What really gets me is the lack of sympathy from Apple. OK its only $25 but it still irks me!

On a less personal note, I do think there should be some concern about the number of outlets marketing the iTunes vouchers where the staff are clearly not familiar with / trained in selling the vouchers leading to the lack of activation of cards. You know the scenario - a trolley full of groceries with a little iTunes card added at the checkout ......

I guess I will be coughing up the money. So thats $50 to Apple iTunes ......

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Answer 13

Chris CA

Level 10

82,681 points

Mar 21, 2010 12:00 PM in response to Firefly157

You know the scenario - a trolley full of groceries with a little iTunes card added at the checkout ......

And many stores have 2-4 dozen other gift cards right there also and if they fail to get activated at point of sale, they too will not be usable and you'll have to go back to the place of purchase to get it sorted.
It's not only an iTunes gift card issue.

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Answer 14

Chris CA

Level 10

82,681 points

Mar 18, 2010 7:28 AM in response to mattshawuk

Excellent. Sometimes people need a little nudge to get them going where they know they need to go.

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