System Freezes Randomly after 10.6.3 Update

Hi,

I have seen other people post various other problems they have experienced after 10.6.3. But I want to dedicate this thread specifically to Macs freezing randomly during operation after applying the 10.6.3 update.

It has happened twice in the past 24 hours. While using my iMac, the system becomes unresponsive and exhibits the following symptoms:

1. Though the mouse pointer moves, I cannot click on icons, links, select text or interact with anything using the mouse.
2. The system is also unresponsive to key presses on the keyboard, whether they be individual key presses or pre-defined keyboard shortcuts.
3. The only way to make the system respond is by holding down the power button until the iMac shuts down.

I cannot tell if the problem is related to the specific activity I was performing on the Mac - the freezing may seem random to me but it could be caused by the same event (maybe Flash, Javascript, or some background program)

If you are having the same issue, please post here by copying and pasting the text below and entering your answers:

1. Problem started happening after 10.6.3 update? Yes/No
2. Did you get any errors during 10.6.3 update process? Yes/No
3. Mouse cursor moves? Yes/No
4. Mouse clicking does nothing? Yes/No
5. Keyboard key presses do nothing? Yes/No
6. Only way to re-animate system is by holding down power button? Yes/No
7. Mouse/Keyboard Model?

I'll fill in mine to start:
1. Problem started happening after 10.6.3 update? Yes
2. Did you get any errors during 10.6.3 update process? No
3. Mouse cursor moves? Yes
4. Can you click anything with the mouse? No
5. Does the system respond to keyboard key presses? No
6. Only way to re-animate system is by holding down power button? Yes
7. Mouse/Keyboard Model? Magic Mouse/Apple Aluminum KB w/number pad

iMac 24" (Late 2008), Mac OS X (10.6.3)

Posted on Mar 30, 2010 11:06 PM

Reply
682 replies

Apr 27, 2010 2:39 PM in response to R C-R

Hi again...
While the debate continues, so were my freezes, so I decided to go to my external hard drive and use Super Duper! Luckily my 'clone' was still on 10.6.2 and so I booted from that and Super Duped! over the top of my system hard drive. I had to transfer a few files like photos, mp3s and the like first to the external drive . . . but it worked fine. Since then I have been running the Mac all day and not only does it not crash like before but it seems to be a bit more nimble too! So, until there is a definitive 'fix' for this dilemma, I shall stick with 10.6.2. Oddly, when I tried to reload Snow Leopard from the DVD it said 'Nope'!! You are using Time Machine. So it wouldn't let me. I haven't ever used the thing either!! Prefer to use Super Duper! and perform mirror copies that only update altered files.

I realise that this is not a solution but I am happy to have my Mac back! Of course, should anything go bad . . . I will let you all know. Thanks for a great forum though!

Apr 27, 2010 4:45 PM in response to bobtibb

bobtibb wrote:
Oddly, when I tried to reload Snow Leopard from the DVD it said 'Nope'!! You are using Time Machine. So it wouldn't let me.


When you say "reload" do you mean reinstall Snow Leopard over the existing copy? If so, you should not see that message unless the target volume for the install is being used as a Time Machine backup. If that is not the case, it implies a problem not related to 10.6.3 or any other version of the OS. To confirm, you can try starting up directly from the DVD (if you haven't already done so) by holding down the c key with the DVD in the drive at startup. This boots the computer from the copy of Snow Leopard on the DVD itself, independently of any OS version on any other drive. You don't have to go through with the reinstall process but if you still get that message when you start it, you know the problem is unrelated to the OS version currently installed on the HD.

Apr 27, 2010 6:09 PM in response to R C-R

R C-R, thanks for your input and help. Unfortunately, I again have to conclude there is a software related system freezing problem with Snow Leopard version 10.6.3 (for both the 10D574 and 10D578 builds) that can effect a variety of Intel Mac computers. I had Apple support people on the phone three times and they acknowledged that Apple engineers are aware of the probkem and that they are looking into it. I did file a Snow Leopard bug report via the Apple website for Snow Leopard 10.6.3. Since this Apple discussions thread is merely a user forum I do encourage everybody who suffers from the freezing problem to file a bug report as well (at http://www.apple.com/feedback/macosx.html) so the problem will get a higher priority with the Apple software engineers and will hopefully be fixed with version 10.6.4 (as opposed to 10.6.5, 10.6.6 or later).

I've made some comments earlier in this threads about my Macbook pro (15", 2007 model). For five days I thought that the problems were fixed with the 10.6.3 v1.1 (build 10D578) update. Unfortunately the freezing problem came back and I had to reinstall the system in the following way:
1) BACKUP your Mac (via Time Machine, SuperDuper! (my favorite) or Carbon Copy Cloner).
1b) Read step one again, make sure you have a backup (or two) on external USB or Firewire drive.
2) Pop in Snow Leopard disk and choose Apple menu --> Utilities --> Disk Utility.
3) Erase your hard drive (Format Mac OS Extended (Journaled & choose a Name).
4) Install Mac OS X
5) After installation you will get a few menu's and eventually will get the menu with the question: Would you like to transfer your information? Plug in the external USB or firewire backup hard drive now. If you have a Time Machine backup choose "From a Time Machine Backup". If you have a carbon clone from SuperDuper! or Carbon Copy Cloner choose "From another volume on this Mac and you'll be able to select your disk.
6) After completion all your User stuff and Applications will be restored but you'll have a 10.6.0 Mac. Get the 10.6.2 combo update here: http://support.apple.com/kb/dl959 and install it.
7) Later you can comfortably run Software Update from the Apple menu and install any update that shows up EXCEPT the "Mac OS X Update", which will bring you back to the 10.6.3 update. Hopefully when 10.6.4 is released in several months time you can try it again. For now stick to 10.6.2.

Good luck!

Apr 27, 2010 8:15 PM in response to firedragon76

Regarding your formula for reinstalling the OS, note that if you follow step 5 to transfer files from a backup, you may well be transferring something responsible for the freezes with 10.6.3 right back into your freshly "clean" Snow Leopard install. This is why this procedure is not a definitive test showing that the problems must be caused by 10.6.3 itself.

Regarding what Applecare told you, Apple engineering always looks into reported post-update issues, but this does not necessarily mean the fault is in the update or the solution is in yet another OS update. Many of the "in case of trouble" steps you see in Apple support docs & in the "Read me's" that come with Apple software are the result of problems discovered this way, for instance the effects of some non-essential peripherals or third party software on the update or install process. At one point, a particular piece of third party software (APE) had caused so many problems with updates that Apple built a script step into some installer packages specifically to remove it, which I suppose you could say was a solution in a new update, but users could have avoided the need for that if they had followed the troubleshooting steps already provided. Annoyingly, some users even reinstalled the offending version of APE & complained about the need to do that as well.

Please note the "not necessarily" phrase in the last paragraph. I am not saying this is true for every problem, just that not all the problems are caused by the update itself or will be cured by a new version. (Please excuse my pointing this out, but some users seem unable to see such qualifiers or understand their implications.)

Regarding the advice to start the install with an erase of the drive, this "nuclear" solution is rarely necessary. The main reason to do this is if there are file system problems that Disk Utility (or more powerful utilities like Disk Warrior) can't repair. Another is if the drive has the wrong partition map scheme (anything besides GUID Partition Table), but since the installer will not install the OS on a drive with any other scheme, this should not be a factor if it installed the OS in the first place. Also, there are good reasons to start the installation with an OS already on the target drive, including the new installer's pre-install "Install Mac OS X" application to pre-configure the installation for a smaller footprint. And because of the transfer issue mentioned in the first paragraph, it may just end up being pointless because much of the same data that has been erased will be put right back on the drive.

Apr 28, 2010 12:31 AM in response to R C-R

Ok all,

I've been having some success with the buggy installation of 10.6.3 now.
My setup has 3 users, fast user switching.
For some reason the administrator on the computer never had these problems, only on the normal users. (impossible to prove off course, because most of the time the users are the active user..)
So what I did was give everyone admin rights.
THEN:
-downloaded 10.6.3 v1.1 combo
-reboot into safe mode
-disk utility repaired permissions on drive with 10.6.3
-ran update 10.6.3 v.1.1 combo
-rebooted in safe mode again
-disk utility repaired permissions on drive with 10.6.3 v1.1

Until now, no freezes.

I'm going to keep watching for them in the next couple of days. After I feel confident it will not freeze anymore, I will make my 2 extra admin users normal users again, just to make sure that wasn't a problem as well..

OK, good luck all

Apr 28, 2010 5:14 AM in response to cvdgenugten

Hi R C-R

When I attempted to reinstall Snow Leopard, I did so after booting from the DVD. It would not allow me to do so as it told me that I was using it for Time Machine. I ensured that Time Machine was turned off. Actually, I have not used Time Machine, preferring to use Super Duper! So, had I not had 10.6.2 as a mirror copy on my external drive, I would have needed to format the hd in order to get Snow Leopard on my machine as a clean copy. No one relishes re-building and re-loading all of their software back onto their Mac and customising it the way they like it. I was fortunate I think. If this does become a recognised problem by Apple I hope that 10.6.4 is a solution. Until then, I guess it is prudent to stick to 10.6.2 (and keep it on my external drive) and back up data as I go along. I trust I am understanding the use of Time Machine correctly in that if it is turned off, it should allow me to re-install from the Snow Leopard DVD. I just looked at Time Machine and the only record is of 'now' and 'today'... so, no backups to use anyway! Bob

Apr 28, 2010 6:37 AM in response to bobtibb

There have been a few scattered reports of an OS installer deciding a volume was in use by Time Machine & not allowing an install, but they have been trickling in since Time Machine first was released with Leopard. The cause for some (but not all) of them has been traced to a file placed on the drive indicating it was selected at some point for Time Machine use, even if no Time Machine backups were ever made to it. It isn't clear what this file is or if some bug in Time Machine, the OS itself, or some OS installer was responsible, or if sometimes user error or some third party application was involved, but it is clear enough that neither 10.6.3 nor any other 10.6 version is the culprit since the issue started occurring long before its release.

So, it isn't necessarily correct that just "turning off" Time Machine will remedy this. However, this theoretically should apply only to a volume eligible for Time Machine use. It isn't clear from what you say about using clones & the Time Machine 'today' record exactly what you have done or when, so I don't know how much if any of this applies to you.

Apr 28, 2010 7:59 AM in response to R C-R

R C-R, I appreciate that you try to help but all this confusion is not useful. I'm very aware of all the potential problems that could cause freezing and so are many of us more computer / tech savvy users on this forum.

- You don't know my knowledge of OS X and have no idea what I discussed on the phone with Apple so please don't comment on that.
- On my Mac I experienced the freezing problem on 2 separate hard drives including a brand new one.
- I tried resetting PRAM and also swapped the physical memory without success
- I did a clean install without restoring data from an old volume and STILL the freezing occurred.
- Repairing disk permissions and hard disk check/repairs won't solve the problem (in theis case) since it's not hard drive / partition related.
- Reinstalling the Mac to 10.6.2 via the method I posted yesterday (also see correction post below that post) is NOT nuking the drive (please don't say that) and is the advised method by Apple support (including all 3 support people / engineers that encouraged me to do this). As I stressed out you WILL need a BACKUP FIRST (or two to be safe). As a matter of fact this is the least painful way for many of us that suffer from the freezing problem to get the Mac up and running.

Some background to the problem: The most knowledgeable suggestion by an Apple! engineer I spoke for the cause of the problem is that on some Macs there is a communication problem between the 10.6.3 operating system and the firmware on some of the graphic RAM chips on some Macs leading in certain situations to graphical glitches (see other forum thread) or a complete system freeze.

Again, I appreciate that you are trying to help but please stick to facts and don't speculate so much. It leads to a lot of confusion.

As a thought of comfort, Apple seeded 10.6.4 (build 10F37) to developers and one of the focus areas is graphics drivers! I have confidence that when 10.6.4 will be released to the public in several months the problem will be fixed. Until then, if you suffer from the freezing problem (as described in THIS thread! and after trying disk permissions repair and hard drive verification via disk utility) your best option is to revert back to 10.6.2 via the method I described earlier in this thread (yesterday, also read the correction post below it).

Apr 28, 2010 11:52 AM in response to R C-R

R C-,R I'm not sure if you try to discredit my explanation by going into technical details but fair enough, I'll rephrase that part of my post: The firmware is stored in a small amount of memory soldered on the motherboard (logic board) and communicates with the graphical memory chip, which is soldered on the logic board as well (e.g. for a MacBook (pro)) or part of the computer as a designated video card (e.g. Mac pro) to allow the operating system to perform video processes. On topic, if there is indeed a problem between the 10.6.3 operating system and the firmware such that it can not use the video hardware chip properly on certain Macs graphical glitches can occur or a full system freeze. This is how I understand it from the Apple engineer that I spoke with.

Again, I do appreciate your input. However, please understand that many of us are frustrated about this freezing problem with 10.6.3 and that there IS a problem with the 10.6.3 update that affects a minority of Macs. For THOSE users a 10.6.2 downgrade is the only solution at the moment (again, this was also advised to me by Apple support & engineers) until 10.6.4 is released to the public (in 2, 3 or 4 months time or so).

Apr 28, 2010 12:15 PM in response to firedragon76

Off topic, if anyone is interested in learning more about how the operating system on your Mac (or computer in general) communicates with the hardware the following Wikipedia articles give a decent summary:

- EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExtensibleFirmwareInterface
- Kernel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_%28computing%29
- Firmware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware

Cheers!

Apr 28, 2010 12:40 PM in response to firedragon76

firedragon76 wrote:
Off topic, if anyone is interested in learning more about how the operating system on your Mac (or computer in general) communicates with the hardware the following Wikipedia articles give a decent summary:

- EFI (Extensible Firmware Interface) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ExtensibleFirmwareInterface
- Kernel: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kernel_%28computing%29
- Firmware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware

Cheers!

Alternatively, you can befriend RCR like we did and get it all without asking for it 🙂

Sorry, couldn't resist...

My previous post has until now proven to work out for me.
Im still not entirely trusting my system so I'm using my MacBook which has not been affected for normal work.
When I have more news on my finding I will post more

-Charles

Apr 28, 2010 12:40 PM in response to sherifhanna

Amen to this post.

The freezes I am experiencing after this update is with open applications after 2-3 hours of use. As well as any new applications I try to open... everything just loads, and loads and loads with the beach ball.

Not to bad mouth apple (I'm an apple convert myself) but being a PC user for the past 10 years I can say that Windows (for me at least) has been more stable in itself and with other applications than Snow Leopard.

This may only be the case with myself... but I don't get it, I only have Snow Leopard compatible apps, CS4 and VMware Fusion with Windows 7.

Maybe I'm over-exagerating but it is true that Windows has never had a system update that has rendered the system useless... at least from Windows XP on forward.

I hope 10.6.4 comes out soon to fix this.

Apr 28, 2010 1:10 PM in response to cvdgenugten

"Alternatively, you can befriend RCR like we did and get it all without asking for it"
I'm not exactly sure how this is relevant to my posts?

I've tried your method last week. I had 5 days of non-freezing with an administrative user on a clean system without any user data loaded and then the system unfortunately froze again. I'll be curious to hear from you if you have better success.
I'll pay close attention to the development of 10.6.4 with regard to the focus area "graphics drivers" and will let you know in this thread if I have news.

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System Freezes Randomly after 10.6.3 Update

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