System Freezes Randomly after 10.6.3 Update

sysvr4 wrote:
This is a 10.6.3 problem, make no mistake.

Obviously it it. But that does not necessarily mean that 10.6.3 is the cause of all the problems. As I said, if it were it would affect large numbers of users in some correlated way & no solution that did not involve going back to 10.6.2 that we know works for some would not work equally well for others.

No disrespect intended to anybody, but post hoc arguments are not going to help anybody resolve any of this. A problem appearing after the update is not by itself the 'smoking gun' some seem to think it is.

For instance, in your report there are two things that have to be considered:

1. If you migrate files from a backup, you may bring back something that is causing your problem.

2. If you have an interfering peripheral, it is not enough to remove it after you have done the install. To prevent interference with the install, it must not be connected during the the install process.

Don't get me wrong: I am not saying either of these is necessarily the cause of your problem, just that they can't be ruled out. It would be great if they could be but it isn't that simple.

Oh, I agree with all of that. The best way to debug whether it's purely a 10.6.3 problem is to fresh install on a new drive, new user, no migrate, with everything out except the essentials. Unfortunately, I don't have time to do that, especially after losing about 3 days of productivity trying to debug this 7 ways from Sunday 🙂 Maybe I or someone else can try that in the next couple of days.

Still, the same preferences, applications, cache files, etc all working in 10.6.2, while not a "smoking gun", is fairly indicative in my experience. At any rate, my computer is working again, and I do not have to spend loads of time repairing my disk after repeated locks - a fact for which I am immensely relieved.

In a previous post I reported that my freezes and crashes stopped after I reinstalled snow leopard and all the updates including 10.6.3 combo v 1.1. Unfortunately, I didn't wait long enough. After 4-5 days of use without a crash, the exact same thing started happening all over again. I've now reinstalled 10.6 and updated to 10.6.2. So far so good. I hope somebody figures this out.

I've also been having random freezes since 10.6.3 update. I tried the Software update as well as the Combo. Sometimes my macbook would not even boot up and sometimes it would, but the screen would be completely dead. Then after hardbooting it multiple times and closing & opening lid randomly, it would eventually boot up with the screen working, only to freeze again after a few minutes.
I have now restored my system from a 10.6.2 backup done a few weeks ago and have had no problems since.
10.6.3 is definitely the problem and I find it pathetic that apple has not admitted it yet.

1. Problem started happening after 10.6.3 update? Yes
2. Did you get any errors during 10.6.3 update process? No
3. Mouse cursor moves? Yes
4. Can you click anything with the mouse? No
5. Does the system respond to keyboard key presses? No
6. Only way to re-animate system is by holding down power button? Yes
7. Mouse/Keyboard Model? Magic Mouse/Apple Aluminum KB w/number pad

yes
no
yes
no
no
yes
logitech cordless mouse/keyboard and hp cordless

at first I thought it was from an corrupt hdmi cable but unplugged it leaving the line converter in. wasnt the cable. then I thought the printer. not that. then I thought the mini display 2 hdmi line converter. still locked up. unplugged everything usb besides mouse and keyboard. didnt help. since I have eyetv on constantly I thought there might be a software glitch between the 2. I downgraded eyetv software to b4 the crashing. wasnt that. must be bad programming in 10.6.3. I also noticed that in trying to play a dvd in an external drive, now it doesnt work. I havent tried the drive on a pc yet but I'm thinking that too has to do with 10.6.3. I'm a firm believer that updates arent always a good thing. everything worked fine b4 the update!

let me also add that I redid my mac from scratch. no reverts from backup. started with leo and worked my way up. after reinstalling all that was previously installed all worked fine until last night when I installed 10.6.3 combo. I woke to a locked up com. right now I am starting from scratch again but not going to update to 10.6.3. I bet tomorrow and the days after (like b4) I will wake to a working com. I leave all my coms on all the time with an occasional reboot now and then. I'm just glad I thought to come see others are locking up b4 I went out and started replacing cables and drives and mice and keyboards when its actually the mac that doesnt work! I read one "freezer" that only had installed just with that came with his mac. so it cant be happening from the mac OS and other software/hardware not gettin along. another guy said it cant be 10.6.3 cuz everyone would be having the same trouble. well humans dont all get cancer either. who knows why some people are locking up and other arent.... just FIX it! (please!!!)

planetjt wrote:
who knows why some people are locking up and other arent.... just FIX it! (please!!!)

Until someone figures out what causes only some Macs to lock up, nobody will know what needs to be fixed. We can't fix anything in the update -- we are just users -- but maybe we can find some pattern that will help Apple do that. Plus, if you send Apple feedback in addition to posting in the user-to-user forums like this one, it will help. Be sure to fill in the requested info in the feedback form, adding any comments you think are relevant.

RCR, Apple shouldn't have to rely on users to test their updates. They have test labs with every possible model and configuration of Apple product ever sold. From the sound of things, many people experience this issue on totally fresh, out of the box, installs of 1.6.3 so it should be easy for Apple to replicate in their lab and investigate the cause.

Correct about the feedback! I sent mine a couple of days ago.
However my case looks the worst! I am now not even able to restart from the original DVD. This after erasing the HD and a (painful and long) re-install and restart from the Install Disk (10.6.1). I have a nice and colorful presentation and that's it!

Briefly:
I have a freshly bought MacBook which had 10.6.2 on-board. It worked beautiflly for two weeks before I got the (bad) idea to update it. I must say that it was NOT the 10.6.3 upgrade that caused the start of my problems, but the following Security Update 2010-003. Since then almost all symptoms I have read about on the various forums affected my machine: kernel process using > 100% of CPU, screen freezing, 15 minutes to boot, etc.
As said I am a Mac newbe so I asked for help a colleague of mine. After some investigations in the logs, he suggested me to save my personal stuff onto an external disk and restart from the Install DVD. Well, after a few hours I am still at 0! Unable to click on the "Continue" button on the Welcome screen!

I am quite convinced that the problem is in the Bios because even when I started from the Install DVD (I repeat: 10.6.1) the kernel CPU usage was constantly at 105%. Will try to think about something else before giving it back to the seller...

Very disappointing! Apple: where are you?

A Linux fan.

1. Problem started happening after 10.6.3 update? Yes
2. Did you get any errors during 10.6.3 update process? No
3. Mouse cursor moves? Yes
4. Mouse clicking does nothing? Yes
5. Keyboard key presses do nothing? Yes
6. Only way to re-animate system is by holding down power button? Yes
7. Mouse/Keyboard Model?

Same issues as others here. Very new to the MAC world. I can't open anything on my MAC. The cursor moves over the icons they respond but when i click nothing happens. How can I get the system to do antthing? Held the power button down to restart but comes back up with the same issue of not being able to open any application. Is there a process as it boots up?

Actually, nobody could test every possible configuration since there are tens of thousands of them in use. Apple tests a representative variety of them in-house, & users & developers participating in beta & seed programs test many more before a product is released to the general public, but that still represents only a small fraction of what is possible.

That is why it is highly unlikely that there is a bug in this or any other update that would affect any common configuration, & why it is important to provide Apple the requested information if you suspect a bug in one is affecting you.

I really don't understand why some users are so reluctant to do this. I understand even less why some seem willing to continue to spend time pointlessly complaining to other users about it or speculating about what they think Apple should do that they aren't already doing. What good does it do to complain to people that can't fix it? All we can do is compare our results, whether they include problems or not, & look for reasons for the differences. Even the most eloquently worded complaint won't change the fact that only relatively few out of the millions using Snow Leopard report any upgrade problem, or that only a few can replicate any particular problem on their systems. Worse, some users spin improbable theories to explain that away, ignoring its obvious implications.

Seriously, does anybody really think these problems are widespread & for some bizarre reason most of those affected are just suffering in silence? How many people do you know that would do that with any other similarly expensive product? What makes this any different?

1. Problem started happening after 10.6.3 update? Yes
2. Did you get any errors during 10.6.3 update process? No
3. Mouse cursor moves? No
4. Mouse clicking does nothing? Yes
5. Keyboard key presses do nothing? Yes
6. Only way to re-animate system is by holding down power button? Yes, but sometimes unplugging/replugging in USB mouse works (to unfreeze, but it does not stop the intermittent stalling & eventual re-freeze!)
7. Mouse/Keyboard Model? Apple Pro Keyboard, Logitech mouse

So... is it safe just to pop in my Snow Leopard disc, and reinstall over 10.6.3, and then install the 10.6.2 combo update?

Thanks!

1. If you can't start up from the DVD, your problem has nothing to do with any update. When your Mac is first booted, nothing on the HD is used unless & until it is actually starting up from an OS installed on it. In fact, if your HD was empty or removed, you could still start up from the DVD if the Mac had no problems.

2. There is no BIOS on a Mac. It uses EFI instead.

3. If your Mac is new enough that it came with 10.6.2 pre-installed, it is under warranty. Take it to an Apple Store or call AppleCare to arrange for a repair or one-on-one help resolving whatever is wrong with it.

4. Apple is everywhere the documentation that comes with your Mac says it is. It is not here in these forums it hosts for user-to-user discussions other than that Apple employees are the moderators that make sure posts follow the Discussions Terms of Use (which you should read if you are unclear about that).

5. If you want to try anything else on your own, try Resetting PRAM first. This will return setting held in your Mac's non-volitile memory to their default values. This sometimes helps with restart issues, although it sounds like your Mac has other problems as well. You can also try resetting the System Management Controller (SMC). The SMC is a small microcomputer embedded in the Mac's hardware that controls many low-level functions independently of the OS.

6. If you have installed any after-market memory in your Mac, try temporarily replacing it with the OEM modules. Most after-market modules, especially budget priced ones that use 'generic' chips, are not individually tested & may not fully meet type specs. It is not that unusual for one of these substandard modules to work perfectly with one OS version but not another because of differences among the OS versions (which invariably require progressively tighter adherence to the specs as Apple tweaks the OS for better performance). Apple's warranty obviously doesn't cover these modules but most resellers do, often with a lifetime "no questions asked" replacement warranty, in part because it is cheaper for them to let you discover the defective ones than to pre-test each of them before sale.

Thanks R C-R! Resetting PRAM did the job! EFI/Bios/PRAM/EPROM/Firmware,... whatever you call it, the problem was clearly there. However I confirm that all started after the Security Update following the 10.6.3 upgrade. If the "original" sin was the installation of third party s/w remains unclear to me, though now I know I must always check system parameters (in particular the kernel_task CPU usage!)after each installation and possibly system reboot.
I must also say that calling the Apple store and speaking with a technician didn't help. He was much in favor of a h/w failure of some sort rather than a s/w problem. Anyway this is a sign that cases like those many peaple are experiencing with the 10.6.3 are not common for the Mac OS, I think/hope.

As said, this is my first experience with Mac OS as I am a Linux user and things like this, at my knowledge, cannot happen under such OS being the "Bios" distict and independent from the OS.
To finish, I am glad to know that, like in the Linux coimmunity, also the Mac world can count on users like you which can help quickly and possibly better than the official "hardware" stores.
Thanks again!