G-4 Q.S.,10.4.11 tiger, needs 9.2.2 installed for Classic Mode function

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Level 1

60 points

G-4 Q.S.,10.4.11 tiger, needs 9.2.2 installed for Classic Mode function

OK, got a simple question now, recently acquired a G-4 Quick Silver, 800 mhz dual processors, model M8493, 2001 prod. yr. Seller wiped hdd., partitioned the hdd as 1 section (no partitions) in Mac OS Extended (journaled) & in (Apple partition map), then installed X i0.4 for me as part of the sale. I downloaded the 10.4.11 and other updates (java's), and Firefox 3.6.2 & Safari 4.0.5, both browsers are working fine. I now want to install OS 9.2.2, as I understand, doing this will activate the CLASSIC Mode files that are lurking in limbo in the hdd. ... Here's my question, when I tried my os 9.2 (retail install cd) it said "can not install os 9.2 on this disk because it already has an os (10.4.11 ?)running on it. Do you want to do a clean install" ?. <(or wording to that effect?). I did nothing, not being sure. I did look at Disk First Aid to see how the hdd. was partitioned & formatted <only looked, did nothing. I could see "Mac OS 9 Drivers Installed" box checked but grayed out. I do have the 10.4 & 10.4.11 install dvd's. I read enough to know I can install the "extas folder" from the install dvd. But I'm wondering if installing os 9 from the cd may have any advantages over the "extras folder" from the dvd ? Might I get more complete os 9 files from the cd vs. the dvd "extras" ?, my reason for concern is I would like the printer drivers from the os 9 to run my stock pile of stylewriter II printers (I don't need color & I have crate of new cartridges & a few gallons of refill ink). So, do I need to erase & repartition the hdd.?, does os 9 need to be in a seperate partition ?, (as I hunt & peck this out, I'm thinking if partitioned the "classic mode" would not activate with os 9 in a seperate partition ?). I do tend to over think what I read and come up with questions the "normal" person doesn't (it's a problem , I know, I've been doing it for 60 yrs.). So, if Grant or Allan, or one of the many geniuses out there can put the answers in K.I.S.S. format ( KEEP IT SIMPLE "FOR" Stupid ) I would be very Grateful, I thank all responders in advance for taking your time to read this and responding. Again Thanks To All, wayne146, .... Thanks.......

Message was edited by: wayne146 @ 6:19 AM 4/4/10

G4 QUICK SILVER 800 DUAL, Mac OS X (10.4.11), G3 MINI 500MHZ 9.2.2, G3 B&W 450MHZ 9.2.2, G4 PCI 400MHZ 9.2.2 & 10.4.11

Posted on Apr 4, 2010 6:07 AM

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Answer 1

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Apr 4, 2010 7:21 AM in response to wayne146

Hi-

You can do the clean install, as it doesn't erase any files.
What a clean install does is move previous OS 9 system files to a folder named "Previous System Folder".

Using a bootable OS 9 disc:
1-Start up from the OS 9 CD, and open the Installer.
2- Click the Options button in the Installer to access the clean installation option.
3- Select the checkbox for clean installation.
4- Install the software.
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1585?viewlocale=en_US#m9

Whether OS 9 is on the same volume as Tiger, or on a separate volume, Classic can be directed to the volume where OS 9 resides.
OS 9 can even be on an external firewire drive and still allow Classic to run.

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Answer 2

Apr 4, 2010 8:04 AM in response to wayne146

Hi, wayne146 -

As japamac says, if you already have OS 9 on the drive, doing a Clean Install will just move it to a folder mnamed Previous System Folder, and then install a fresh copy.

However, it sounds like the seller did not install OS 9.

OSX's system includes a folder which the OS 9 installer interprets as qualifying as an OS 9 System Folder, but one of unknown version, and it then refuses to install on top of it (which is a good thing). The solution is to do a Clean Install - this will make the OS 9 installer ignore that folder, and install a fresh copy of OS 9 along with a normal array of OS 9 utilities.

***

If the OSX 10.4 disk set is a retail disk set, it does not include any ability to install OS 9 (Classic).

***

Provided the hard drive does not exceed 200GB in size, and an original OS 9.2 Software Install CD for the '01 QS or a retail (white label) OS 9.2.1 Install CD is used, the installed OS 9 will be bootable on that model.

If the hard drive is larger than 200GB and has not been partritioned, the installed OS 9 will not be bootable. If that is the case, and you want OS 9 to be bootable, you would need to partiton the drive such that the partition used for OS 9 does not exceed 200GB (a max partition size of 190GB is safe, smaller is fine).

***

...I've been doing it for 60 yrs.

No biggie. The average age of the long-term helpers in these forums is a lot higher than most folk might think (the last time someone figured it out for the L4/L5's, the average was around 45, maybe a bit higher). Personally, I turn 66 this year, and type with only 5 fingers (3 right, 2 left) - good thing I never learned proper typing techniques.

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Answer 3

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 4, 2010 8:16 PM in response to Don Archibald

Thanks for responding, japamac and Don, I'll try to keep to the point,(I can ramble on), hdd is 80 mb, cap. 74.xx mb, available is 68.93 mb, so size is ok and it's not partitioned, it shows entire hdd. as 1 volume(?) or 0 partitions, mac os extended (JOURNALED), but is "Apple partition mapped". I do not know from what type disk the X 10.4 was installed from (I can call him tomorrow), I did do a search as follows: dbl. clk. hdd. icon, >users,>apple customer,>library,>classic fldr., get info. says it's empty (0 bytes), but there is a "classic folder" though empty. ... next went to start-up disk, it shows icons for "OS X 10.4.11 on hdd., and a "network start-up" icon, NO "OS 9" or "classic" icons/fdlrs. I went to "disk first aid", it says; Mac OS 9 drivers installed: YES. ... I do have OS 9.2 retail & 9.2.2 update cd's and from e-bay, MAC OS X Tiger, version 10.4 "APPLE INTERNAL EDITION" "2005" & 10.4.11 update dvd's, so I can restore / replace at will if ness. ... the machine runs fine now, I just need to install the OS 9 so clissic with run for the benifits it has. ... last ?; what does "journaled" mean ?, does it matter for what I'm trying to do ?, apple partition map ? what does it mean ? ... thanks to all, wayne146

Message was edited by: wayne146

Message was edited by: wayne146

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Answer 4

Apr 4, 2010 10:16 PM in response to wayne146

Hi, wayne146 -

"Journaled" is normal for the primary boot volume with OSX. This Apple KBase article discusses it -
http://support.apple.com/kb/HT2355

Although journaling is often not used for a volume dedicated to OS 9, it should not prevent installing OS 9 on nor using it from that volume.

Note - "volume" refers to an unpartitioned drive, or to a partition of a partitioned drive.

***

"Apple partition map" is normal; there's a brief explanation in this Wikipedia article -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ApplePartitionMap

Mainly, it identifies the volume as being formatted for a PowerPC Mac, vs. a GUID volume format which is normal for Intel Macs.

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Answer 5

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 5, 2010 12:08 PM in response to Don Archibald

OK, We're getting more confident and really close to executing the installation of OS 9, I have 1 question that needs to be answered before I go ahead. ... Here it is; Is there any advantage to using the 9.2 cd (clean install) or the 10.4 dvd (extras install) ? ... Are they exactly the same ?, or does one have a slightly more complete package than the other ? ... I have both and want to choose the better of them ? (if there's any advantage to be gained) ....Thanks to all for responding. You've cleared much of air in my foggy old gray matter with the your knowledge and links to Apple Articles, Thanks for your patients !! ......wayne146....

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Answer 6

Apr 5, 2010 12:52 PM in response to wayne146

Hi, wayne146 -

If the OSX 10.4 disk set is a retail disk set, it does not include any ability to install OS 9 (Classic). The retail OSX disk sets have never included that ability.

If the OSX 10.4 disk set is an OEM one that shipped with another Mac, it may not be usable on your QS - those disk sets are usually model-specific to the machine with which they shipped. More importantly, perhaps, is that no OS 9-bootable machine shipped with OSX 10.4 (the last G4 that was OS 9 bootable shipped with OSX 10.2). This means that any Classic install available from an OSX 10.4 disk set will not be a bootable install - it may be able to function as Classic under OSX, but not as a boot OS. The Classic-only installs from disk sets made for machines which are not OS 9-bootable are not as complete an install as one would get from a stand-alone OS 9 install CD.

If you have any thoughts about being able to boot the machine to the OS 9 install, or want an OS 9 install that is as complete as possible, I suggest you use either the Software Install OS 9.2 CD that originally came with your '01 QS, or use a retail OS 9.2.1 Install CD.

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Answer 7

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 5, 2010 1:50 PM in response to Don Archibald

The person I got my Tiger 10.4 dvd from on E-bay said they were/was/are Apple employed, and received this dvd as an emlpoyee benifits/perks ( the disc arrived with only 1 tiniest mark on the recorded side, barely visible in proper lighting/reflection and label side looks un-touched by humans, I expected a few more marks on both sides, I was impressed with it's condition )

The dvd install disk I have was given to Apple Employee's apon the release of "TIGER", it is an "Apple Internal Edition" "OS X Tiger 10.4 version" dated "2005", (black label, big gray X) it does have an "install extras" folder, which I opened for a look see, and it has many more folders inside it, I didn't count them, but there's approx. a dozen or more, didn't open any of them, just read their titles. So it looked pretty complete to my pea brain. Just to be sure of the of the folders under "install extras" I'm going to open a few to be sure they are not empty folders, ... wayne146..... back in a few ......

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Answer 8

Apr 5, 2010 2:15 PM in response to wayne146

Hi, wayne146 -

The dvd install disk I have was given to Apple Employee's apon the release of "TIGER", it is an "Apple Internal Edition" "OS X Tiger 10.4 version" dated "2005"....

If that is the case, then the contents and ability to install for that DVD is unknown to folk who are not Apple emloyees, such as myself. It sounds like it may have been a proprietary release.

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Answer 9

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 5, 2010 3:30 PM in response to Don Archibald

My Bad, I should not trust my memory for what I saw on screen 3 weeks ago !!! what I thought was 'install extras' was actually "optional installs .mpkg", I opened nearly every folder, even outside of "optional installs" and saw nothing even close to classic enviroment/mode, os 9 bits & pieces or anything even in the coded titles of folders or sub folders that would have me think they might relate to os 9 or classic, all mystery speak code names !!! SO, I guess I will use the OS 9.2 retail cd, run the install, restart, keeping my digits crossed, and hope for the GODS to be SMILING MY WAY !!!! thanks so much for your help !! ... wayne146 ....

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Answer 10

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 5, 2010 5:06 PM in response to wayne146

OK, EVERYBODY, DON A. ESPECIALLY, GETS A BIG THANKS !! ... THE 9.2.1 CD INSTALLED AND I NOW HAVE "CLASIC MODE", part 2 of dumbo asks a ? .. I have a retail 9.2.1 update cd and custom burned cd (by local mac expert) that contains 9.2.2 update, later java scripts for os 9, mozilla & wamcom browsers, quicktime, and assorted later apps. that go with os 9.2.2. Should I or would it be advisable to install any of these programs or apps. ?? I want to say that I sometimes feel I'm only 5 or 6 steps away from that "box of rocks" with the label that reads "are you dumber than this ?", other times I feel pretty klever. (the "K" was intensional for laughs).......Thanks All, wayne146......

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Answer 11

Apr 5, 2010 9:25 PM in response to wayne146

Hi, wayne146 -

...and custom burned cd (by local mac expert) that contains 9.2.2 update, later java scripts for os 9, mozilla & wamcom browsers, quicktime, and assorted later apps.

That sounds like a good deal. Provided the updater for OS 9.2.2 is a valid copy of the one available for download from Apple, you should be able to run it while still booted to the OS 9.2.1 on the hard drive (it will not install while the machine is booted to OSX, not even using Classic). You may need to copy the folder for that update to the hard drive, and then run its installer.

Run the updater for OS 9.2.2 first, then restart, then run the updaters for Java, QuickTime, etc. If you are unsure about those, you can download fresh copies from Apple's site, either by running the Software UPdate control panel while booted to OS 9, or by direct download links from Apple's site. If you need any of those links, please advise.

As far as the browsers for wamcom and Mozilla go, I'd go ahead and install just the one for wamcom, which is a newer variant of Mozilla. Given that most OS 9-capable browsers are limited in feature sets vs. current webpage design, you may find that you'll need to use both IE and wamcom at different times, depending which sites you visit. Of course, if you do all your web travel using OSX, then you do not need an OS 9 browser.

As far as other programs go, if the CD has updates for programs you have and use, go ahead and install them. If it includes an update for a program you don't use, there'd be no point in updating it.

Reminder - if the CD happens to have full copies of commercial programs, it would not be ethical to install and use them unless they have been paid for, unless you know for sure that the donor has deleted the program from their machine(s).

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Answer 12

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 5, 2010 10:34 PM in response to Don Archibald

I was asured that I could use the "custom update" cd in as many computers as I will ever own as long as OS 9 is relevant. I've been using wamcom exclusively for sometime now as netscape & IE have been a joke for a long time. your discription of update installations is exactly as I was thinking it should be. so I'm going to mark this as solved and move on, till I get stuck again. one last questionable thought I'm having is I'm hoping that when done I may have access to the older printer drivers from os 9 ? (I have oodles of new cartridges and a few gallons refill ink for the stylewriter II printer & 6 printers in reserve, I don't need colors for what I do). I have a "Keyspan" unit that does usb to round printer cable ( I confuse the names ps2, adb, twisted cable, etc., when pressured). I got the 'keyspan' from the same mac expert, and he knows what I'm setting up, the G-3, G-4's, tiger 10 4 11, older printers, so I confident I can make my way thru it without scraping my knee's to much. I'm here because my Mac expert gets tired of my questions if I visit him to often. He makes his living repairing Mac's so coaching me through my repairs & odessey's kinda goes against himself. You have help me save a friendship I wish to keep. So Thanks a Bunch for sharing your knowledge. It is appreciated very much. .....wayne146 ....

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Answer 13

Apr 5, 2010 11:43 PM in response to wayne146

Hi, wayne146 -

...I'm hoping that when done I may have access to the older printer drivers from os 9 ?

That should work. There is a possibility with older printers that an OS 9 install will not include their particular drivers. However, there are such available for most Apple-brand printers. These Apple KBase articles contain links to download drivers for just about all of the older ones -

LaserWriters - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30154
Stylewriters - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=30153
Other older printers - http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=15372

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Answer 14

wayne146 Author

Level 1

60 points

Apr 6, 2010 4:48 AM in response to Don Archibald

BLESS YOU, I LOVE IT WHEN MY DESIRES ARE CONFIRMED !! THANKS FOR THESE LINKS AS WELL. SOON AS SET-UP IS COMPLETE, IT WILL MOVE TO THE PRIMARY SPOT ON MY DESK !! ......WAYNE146.....

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