Time Capsule-AirPort Express-WDS not working together

Welcome to the discussions!

You would not check the box on the Time Capsule wireless setup page to "Allow this network to be extended". That is only used if you are using the "extend a wireless network" feature for wireless.

The "extend" feature only works if the base station..the Time Capsule and the remote...the AirPort Express are both "n" devices.

You will need to use WDS on your network. When you do this, both the Time Capsule and AirPort Express must be configured to participate in a WDS arrangement.

Open AirPort Utility, select the Time Capsule, click Manual Setup and then click the Wireless tab below the row of icons.

Click on Wireless Mode. If you don't see a WDS option, then hold down the "option" key on your computer as you click on this box and WDS should appear.

(Apple does not really want you to use WDS, so that's why they hide the setting)

The upside to WDS is that is will provide more wireless coverage in the area where the AirPort Express is located. But, the downside to WDS is that it is a "g" level architecture, so you won't be able to use faster "n" speeds with WDS. A bit more disconcerting for most users is the fact that WDS will cause a 50% bandwidth loss on your wireless network.

But, given the devices that you have, it is your only option.

Reference pages 42-44 in the Designing AirPort Networks Guide for Apple's step by step instructions on WDS.

Better yet, you might want to use expert user Tesserax's detailed procedure for this as well. Those instructions can be found here.

Technically, you will be using the AirPort Express to provide additional coverage for the 2.4 GHz band, so the "n" 5 GHz should not be affected. I say "should", because I haven't tested this.

This brings up another point on "extending" and that if a user wants to extend both bands of a dual band TC or AirPort Extreme, he must use 2 AirPort Express devices, one for each band...or, an dual band AirPort Extreme.

When your budget allows, a new "n" AirPort Express would provide you with much improved performance. You could still configure the older Express to "join" and it would not place a bandwidth tax on the network.

When you start testing things out after the configuration, you might want to use a utility like iStumbler to get an accurate picture of what is happening on your network.

Sorry for the lecture, but the "bars" at the top of your screen are there only for show. They tell you nothing about the real signal strength that is being received and nothing about the noise on the network. Many users are quite surprised to learn first hand that their signal strength is far less than they thought.

I may not have been clear on the "dual band" thing.

If you are using the default settings on the Time Capsule for dual band, one band is 5 GHz only for "n" and "a" devices. The other 2.4 GHz band is 802.11 "n", "g", "b".

So, you won't be able to use "n" on the 2.4 GHz band that is being used with the AirPort Express in the WDS arrangement. As you note, in effect, this will be a "b/g" band or network. "G" will normally support a bandwidth of 54 Mbps, so with the WDS, it's theoretical max will be 26 Mbps. That will be "iffy" if you are trying to stream video, audio may be OK.

Before there was dual band, we always told users that if they used WDS, the entire network would revert to "g", even if the Time Capsule, AirPort Express, etc were capable of "n" performance.

Your findings seem to confirm that this happens with a dual band as well.

I think it's well worth it to get the AirPort Express 802.11n. Then you can reconfigure the Time Capsule back to "Create a wireless network" and check the box to "Allow this network to be extended"

The Express"n" would then be configured to "Extend a wireless network". I use this setup and would highly recommend it. There may be a slight bandwidth loss due to overhead, but the performance is light years ahead of WDS.

If you are using the same network name for both bands on the Time Capsule, then I believe by default the Express will extend the 2.4 GHz "n", "g" and "b" band. This makes sense for most users since 5 GHz signals do not travel well over distance or penetrate obstructions well.

IF...you want to extend the 5 GHz band, the only way that I know how to do this is click Wireless Network Options on the wireless setup page for the Time Capsule and enable the option to assign a different name for the 5 GHz network.

Then you will have to configure the Express to extend this specific 5 GHz network. I never had much luck extending 5 GHz, and I wanted my iPhone to be able to use the network across the house, so I went with the simpler one network name for both bands and extended the 2.4 GHz network.

If you have a "g" device joining the extended network, it may tend to slow the "n" devices down slightly...when the "g" device is active, but it won't drag everything down to "g" levels. When the "g" device is not active, "n" devices will run at "n" speeds.

BTW, the ethernet port on the AirPort Express is active when you configure it to "extend a wireless network". This can come in handy for hooking up DVD players, etc that need an internet connection for firmware updates and extra features.

Follow up....I tried a very quick reconfiguration of my dual band AirPort Extreme (same router that the Time Capsule users) and AirPort Express using the WDS arrangement and everything did indeed drop way down in speed and performance.

Post back if you have questions. Happy to help.

Message was edited by: Bob Timmons

This may not work for you but you asked.

I sold all 3 of my older Airport Express units that were "b/g" on eBay....
At the time, I had these older units configured using WDS... I did notice the network wasn't very fast.

I bought 3 new Airport Express units with the "n"....

I also bought a Time Capsule for my main Base Station.

My entire network is now "n" unless I turn on my iPod Touch. I haven't really noticed a slow down when it is on but it's not on for very long.

Good Luck with your decision.

I read this thread with interest. I've got a similar setup - FiOS "modem", connected to a Time Capsule (dual band). Connection sharing is set to "off - bridge mode". The network is working fine, but now I find that I need to provide a wired ethernet port in another room. I happened to have a WRT54G wireless router lying about, which I flashed to DD-WRT to allow it to be a bridge, but I can't seem to bring it into the network. Obviously this is a b/g device. Is there any hope of using it to extend the 11g network without totally fouling up the 11n network? If so, how do I need to configure it?

I very much doubt that the Linksys will be able to "join" your wireless network and provide an ethernet signal, but that's really a question for the Linksys forum.

There are a few earlier Linksys WRT54G models (versions 4 and under) that are said to be compatible with Apple's WDS settings. But, even if successful, this type of configuration will drop the entire wireless network down to "g" level speeds and cut the wireless network bandwidth in half.

An AirPort Express "n" could "join" your wireless network and provide an ethernet signal at its port. If you are using the Time Capsule to create the wireless network, you could also alternately configure the AirPort Express "n" to "extend" your wireless network. In this type of setup it provides additional wireless coverage and the ethernet port is enabled.

Bob - thanks for your reply. It sounds like I'm out of luck (my WRT54G is a v.3, but who wants to lose all the network capacity), but just for my edification, what's the difference between "joining" and "extending" a network? If I ultimately end up buying an Airport Express, it would be useful to understand the difference. Also, how does WDS relate to joining/extending?

Thanks again for your help so far.

Sean

+what's the difference between "joining" and "extending" a network+

When a device such as an Airport Express "joins" a network, it becomes part of the network so you can send printer commands for example to an attached printer or provide an ethernet signal at the port of the device. But, it does not do anything to provide more wireless network coverage. It only "receives" a wireless signal.

When a device "extends" it also joins the network but also takes on the additional function of providing more wireless coverage. So, it has dual functions; it "receives" the wireless signal and it also "broadcasts" it resulting in more wireless coverage.

Apple devices will only "extend" if they are used with other Apple devices.

WDS is an older method of "extending" a wireless network, but it has significant drawbacks: only "g" wireless is allowed...and, the bandwidth (speed capability) on the network is cut in half.

In my case, "joining" would be sufficient. I'll keep working the issue and see if I can get an answer.

Final question on this topic: assuming it is possible to have the Linksys device "join" the network, how would I set up the TC to make it happen? I'm working with the DD-WRT community for help with their end, but I need to be sure I understand how to set up the TC too. Thanks for all your help so far.

Sean