1 2 Previous Next 15 Replies Latest reply: Apr 12, 2010 3:53 PM by windhoveruk
lindseydeb Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
I just switched to shooting raw. I'm trying to figure out how to export my raw files after I've tweaked them in Aperture 3. When I export masters, I get the raw version but not the changes. When I export versions, they're jpegs. I'd like to be able to export toned raw files. Is that possible?

macbook pro, Mac OS X (10.6.3)
  • 1. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    Allan Eckert Level 8 Level 8 (41,525 points)
    Hi lindseydeb;

    No. Aperture never changes the RAW image. Changes are applied only to a copy of the original so you can't do that.

    Allan
    tiger
  • 2. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    pvonk Level 6 Level 6 (13,685 points)
    Another way of looking at this -

    Think of masters as photo negatives. If you use a negative to process a photograph with some fancy effects, the negative won't have those effects, only the photograph.
  • 3. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    DiploStrat Level 2 Level 2 (345 points)
    You may want to do some reading on the nature of RAW files. They are not (yet) images.

    -- They must be read by something, either a program inside your camera or a program on your computer in order to be made into an image.

    -- If in the camera, they are written as TIFF, JPEG or whatever.

    -- On your computer, they can be read and then displayed, printed, or written into an image format (JPEG or whatever), but they cannot be written. This is why Aperture (and Lightroom) store all of your "edits" in another file (called a "version" by Aperture) which, when read with the master image, determines what you see on the screen, paper, etc.

    Not being able to physically edit a RAW file is not a characteristic of Aperture, but rather of the nature of RAW.
  • 4. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (11,945 points)
    Hi. "Raw" is neither a file format nor an image format. It describes a family of file formats, all of them proprietary, for storing sensor data. In order to "see" the image coded by the sensor data, the data must be converted to an image file format. This is done in-camera: what you see on the LCD is a (usually) JPG conversion of the raw data. Cameras capture data well. They don't (generally) process it well -- that is left to a +raw file conversion program+, such as Aperture. (Now you know why you have an option of importing -- and using -- the in-camera JPG as well as the raw files.)

    The "raw workflow" always involves importing raw files, converting them to an editing format (so you can see what you are doing), saving the "edits" to a sidecar file, and, as needed, converting the raw+sidecar information into an image file format (JPG, TIFF, etc.).

    "Raw" is sensor data. Image files come in image file formats. Aperture allows you to import, store, and read the sensor data, make changes, and export image files.
  • 5. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    lindseydeb Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    "The "raw workflow" always involves importing raw files, converting them to an editing format (so you can see what you are doing), saving the "edits" to a sidecar file, and, as needed, converting the raw+sidecar information into an image file format (JPG, TIFF, etc.)."

    How do I save the edits I've made in some other formate besides jpg? I haven't seen any sidecar files or a way to save that info in Aperture.
  • 6. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (11,945 points)
    The "adjustments" (Aperture refers to "edits" as "adjustments" {good diction, imho}) are always stored. You don't have to tell Aperture to save anything. (This is how good databases work.)

    The adjustments +have no image file format+. You can safely ignore that (and you should). Import your files (raw is best), make as many Versions as you want, and when you want to export a Version for use outside of Aperture, specify the image file format you want.

    You don't ever have to think about sidecar files. But if you do -- the Original remains unchanged, so all "adjustments" are stored (automatically) as a set of instructions in a "sidecar" file. When you view/edit/adjust/manipulate an image, you are looking at a formatless (to the user) image. When you export a Version, Aperture collapses the "Master+Sidecar" into the "image file format" you specify.

    The simple approach is to:
    . Import raw files.
    . Make adjustments. All your adjustments are automatically saved.
    . Export files as needed and specify image file format at that time.

    I strongly recommend reading the first two chapters (at the least) of the Users Manual: "Welcome to ... " and "An Overview of ... ".
  • 7. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    lindseydeb Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    thanks. as I mentioned, I've been working with jpgs and obviously this wasn't a problem. I don't keep all my files in Aperture indefinitely but I export them to an external hard drive which is why I'm interested in saving the adjustments I've made rather than going in and starting from scratch.
  • 8. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    Kirby Krieger Level 6 Level 6 (11,945 points)
    Aperture is a +storage, development, and publishing+ program for photographs. All of that comes under the professional rubric "Data Asset Management". It provides a permanent repository and catalog of images (hundreds of thousands).

    You can use Aperture solely for raw conversion and editing, but then you are using only a fraction of the program. Bringing files into Aperture and then deleting the Masters after exporting Versions seems clunky to me -- it is simpler to use Aperture the way it is designed to be used, than to work a subset of its features into a more limited workflow you have used in the past.

    Again, the adjustments are saved automatically. Every single adjustment you make. Until you delete the Version (all Versions are deleted when you delete the Master).
  • 9. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    lindseydeb Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    I am a wedding photographer so I have to put my files in several places for backup, I can't just leave them in Aperture. As it is now, I burn DVDS of all images shot before I edit and tone as well as back them up in a RAID system. I am just looking for a way to have finished versions of the photos in a format other than jpg stored in the same external hard drives.
  • 10. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    DiploStrat Level 2 Level 2 (345 points)
    lindseydeb wrote:
    I am a wedding photographer so I have to put my files in several places for backup, I can't just leave them in Aperture. As it is now, I burn DVDS of all images shot before I edit and tone as well as back them up in a RAID system. I am just looking for a way to have finished versions of the photos in a format other than jpg stored in the same external hard drives.


    The short answer is save 'em as 16 bit TIFF files.

    But, with deepest respect, you still don't understand RAW and more importantly, you may have wasted your money on Aperture. For the workflow you are describing, you would be better off with Adobe Bridge and Photoshop Elements. And, I would submit, you are losing time and energy that you could use to shoot more weddings. There are a lot of folks on this forum who really "get" Aperture and would really like to help.

    As noted by others, you need to read and understand the opening chapters of the Aperture manual, or better yet, find a copy of Ben Long's old book "Real World Aperture." You are looking at Aperture as a mere RAW "converter" and maybe a file browser - it is much, much more. Ben Long called Aperture an image "appliance" and he is right - imagine an automated library that holds all of your images, all the time, can find any one or group in an instant, and produce an endless stream of JPEGs, CDs, prints, or whatever you want. All the time keeping your old images future proofed - better RAW developer, all of your old images just got better.

    In simplest terms, you DO want to leave all of your RAW images in Aperture. (You do want to back these data up using Time Machine, the Aperture Vault, and probably a clone program as well. I use SuperDuper! I keep thirty years of images and memories from some of the more difficult places on earth and I don't want to lose a single one. That is precisely why they are kept in Aperture and not scattered across a bunch of disks. And yes, my Time Machine runs on a RAID.

    I can't see why you would insist on converting your nice 12/14 bit images to 8 bits for eternity. What happens when the bride comes back two years from now and wants new prints? And could she have them in B&W and cropped for 13x19, not 4x6. And then she asks if you have any images of one of the bridesmaids, the one you ignored. Faces to the rescue, in seconds.

    It is your time and money, but you haven't yet realized how much power Aperture gives you and how much easier it is to use Aperture than to do what you are doing now. D.C. is a tough market, you owe it to yourself to use the best tools you can.

    Best wishes!
  • 11. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    Matthew Bergsma Level 3 Level 3 (600 points)
    Hi Lindsey -

    Welcome to the forum. I shoot weddings primarily and utilize this for a backup strategy:

    1. All master images get backed up to multiple drives, some I take offsite. I will eventually add blu-ray burning for these RAW files.
    2. My library gets backed up as a vault on a couple different drives too. I am currently in the experimentation process of using Rsync to copy the library to a backup but ignore previews and thumbnail files to save space and time...

    If Anything goes wrong with my online drives, I have my master negatives that can always be brought back if needed, or I can pull a library from a backup as well. Exporting a master image with an XMP sidecar file is possible I think in aperture 3, but I'm pretty sure the XMP will only be readable by aperture.

    If you want to archive a project to DVD for backup, you can export a project from the file menu as a self contained library, and then burn that to DVD. If you use referenced masters, this library won't contain the actual images, just all the information on how to make the adjustments for the images, along with all your metadata. This would more or less be like exporting a sidecar, but IMHO a much cleaner solution, as everything is wrapped into a global project for that group of negatives...

    If you use referenced masters, the average library size for an individual project is pretty small. (My library of about 25k images is about 9GB).
  • 12. Ouch!
    DiploStrat Level 2 Level 2 (345 points)
    Please forgive the snippy tone of my previous post - not enough coffee this morning.

    Let see if I can phrase this more constructively: Aperture is an extremely powerful tool that can open up workflow possibilties which you could not have previously considered. This may allow you to do more with fewer steps, keeping your images at their highest quality while still having even more secure backups with less effort.

    There are lots of folks here who are more than willing to help you get Aperture to do exactly what you need.

    Please consider some of my comments in that light and I hope you find some of them useful.

    All the best.
  • 13. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    gocuk2@yahoo. Level 2 Level 2 (485 points)
    As has been said you are missing the point. A raw file that has had changes made to it is no longer a raw file. Aperture for your purpose is not the correct tool for the job. That said, it is better to use Aperture as intended, than go backward to less effective, and efficient, ways of working. A little practical advice is walk before you run. That is, try the easy things first. When you next import, have a Hard Drive connected. On the import pane, have Aperture backup to the H.D. by selecting your H.D. at the Backup Location bar. If you don't see the Backup Location bar, go to Import Settings to check it to show.
    After the import is finished, do all your Adjustments, mount a different H.D,. In the bottom of your Library Projects and Albums is a panel that says Vaults, click it, select and name the vault and backup now. You now have a copy of all your Master Files on one Drive and all the work done, to the job including The Whole Library Every Master all the File Structure, Every Adjustment is Backed up to the Second H.D. I'm sure you can find better ways that work for you, it's just an easy start. Allan
  • 14. Re: Raw workflow in Aperture 3
    gocuk2@yahoo. Level 2 Level 2 (485 points)
    PS, Every time you do some work, mount the second H.D. and Back Up. A single click gives you an entire copy of Aperture. The only downside is you can't see the images in the back up as it's a copy of the library. Its a chunk of Aperture Data and not readable without the programme that wrote it. Allan
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