Capturing sound some distance away

Hi there,

I got some technical problem.

I want to record a group of about 50 people singing & in order to capture & fit all into the video, my video camera need to be some distance away.

But I need to record a good voice/sound of them singing. The problem is if I place my video camera so far away from the source, the sound isn't gonna be good.

What is the cheapest way to overcome this problem ? Get a bluetooth mic ? Can recommend the cheapest method say below USD 200 ?

If use a bluetooth mic, will I get a separate sound file ? Or will it be joined up as one video file (ie with video & sound) ?

Thank you

iMac, Mac OS X (10.5.8), 24 inches, 4GB RAM, 2.8GHz, 320GB HDD, 256MB ATI Radeon HD 2600 Pro

Posted on Apr 25, 2010 10:20 AM

Reply
46 replies

Apr 25, 2010 10:57 AM in response to R. Mitchell Fore

R. Mitchell Fore wrote:
The simplest solution would be to use an external mic if your camera supports it. Otherwise, you'll probably need to record the audio separately, import that file into FCE and synch it with your video.


Thanks Mitchell,

You mean like these mic ?
http://www.sony.com.sg/product/ecm-cg1

http://www.sony.com.sg/product/ecm-aw3

http://www.sony.com.sg/product/ecm-hw1

http://www.sony.com.sg/product/ecm-hst1

http://www.sony.com.sg/product/ecm-hgz1

Which of the above is the best ? But how does the sound be recorded separately when there is no tape attached to the mic ?

Thanks

Apr 25, 2010 11:07 AM in response to RyanManUtd

I have no experience with any of these microphones, so I can't offer a specific recommendation. What I'm suggesting is using an external microphone which connects to your camera so the audio that's recorded by the camera comes from that external mic. Some cameras have the capability to use an external mic, some don't. What camera will you be using?

Apr 25, 2010 11:12 AM in response to R. Mitchell Fore

R. Mitchell Fore wrote:
I have no experience with any of these microphones, so I can't offer a specific recommendation. What I'm suggesting is using an external microphone which connects to your camera so the audio that's recorded by the camera comes from that external mic. Some cameras have the capability to use an external mic, some don't. What camera will you be using?


Hi Mitchell,
I am using a Panasonic NV-GS230GC-S

http://www.panasonic.com.sg/web/pid/2280

Thanks

Apr 25, 2010 11:28 AM in response to RyanManUtd

I am using a Panasonic NV-GS230GC-S

It looks like this camera has a connector for an external microphone. A wireless mic would be simplest to use so you don't have to run a long cable.

I'll second Vetgirig's opinion that you'll likely get better audio if you record it separately using good equipment to a dedicated audio device, but that adds importing and synchronizing steps to your editing process.

Apr 26, 2010 5:31 AM in response to R. Mitchell Fore

R. Mitchell Fore wrote:


I'll second Vetgirig's opinion that you'll likely get better audio if you record it separately using good equipment to a dedicated audio device, but that adds importing and synchronizing steps to your editing process.


Thanks Mitchell, but how do I record it separately ? By connecting the mic to a laptop ? That means I have to buy a laptop ?

Apr 26, 2010 6:18 AM in response to RyanManUtd

Wired or wireless mic connected to the camera:

Advantages:
1. you can monitor and control the audio level as it happens.
2. no need to sync audio to video in post.

Disadvantages:
1. wired mic might require long cable run.

.
.
Recording to separate device:

Advantages:
1. can place recorder just about anywhere

Disadvantages:
1. no way to monitor or control audio levels manually.
2. requires syncing the audio to the video in post.
3. depending on your settings, may require sampling rate conversion.

-DH

Apr 26, 2010 8:00 AM in response to RyanManUtd

Hi Ryan,
I do location filming of events like yours. My cameras all have an input for an external mic (stereo input). I considered four possibilities: 1) plugging into the venue's audio system, 2) using a separate audio recorder like the Zoom, 3) buying a couple of wireless mics or 4) buying good quality wired mics & the necessary cables & stands.

I went with #4 and it has worked out great. The main reasons were to record the audio with the video +in camera+ so I would not have to sync the two during post; and to keep the total cost down. I picked up 4 outstanding Audio-Technica mics on eBay for under $100. The stands were about $25 each, 50' cables about $30 each. I also picked up a 4-input mixer for $150. Plus some misc. cables, windscreens, etc. Total about $500.

In your case, you could get away with 2 decent dynamic mics, cables, and a Y-adapter to plug into your camcorder's mic input. This would enable stereo sound and you could place the mics near the chorus and run the cables to your camcorder. And I think you could keep the cost in the neighborhood of $200. ps. - you may even be able to rent this gear from a local audio/production house.

_Option 1_ wasn't viable. The venues generally don't want you plugging into their system and even if you do, you are dependent on them getting it right. Not.
_Option 2_ created too many problems. Separate audio that would have to be sync'd to the video during post. And even then it often drifts out of sync. After doing it this way a couple of times I got so frustrated I swore I'd never do it again.
_Option 3_ was the most expensive. While there are cheap wireless mics out there, I was not satisfied with the quality of the units that were less than about ~$250 - and that was for only 1 mic. And I still would have had to mix them. So this was the high cost option.

Apr 26, 2010 10:23 AM in response to Vetgirig

Vetgirig wrote:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fiLy_BBOQEQ

You don't connect to your camera to the Zoom, you use it off-line.
It´s quite easy to sync audio with your video. Just initiate by clapping your hands together having both the Zoom and your camera recording it...

Your transfer the audio by an USB-connection to your Mac.


Thanks Vetgirig & David for the info on Zoom as well as listing out the pros & cons ...

Apr 26, 2010 10:34 AM in response to MartinR

Thanks Martin for listing out the various options.

Maybe I should let you know what I intend to do.

I am doing the recording only as hobby so have to keep to cost down. Last week, I had a school reunion with my ex-classmates most of whom we haven't seen for more than 20 years.

So we decided to meet again & this time we will be recording us singing our school song ala WE ARE THE WORLD ... style ... where each of us will sing a line ... there will be about 50 of us .... & I am supposed to do the recording & video editing ...

We will be recording in one of our mate's house. It is not a room bcos a room cannot fit 50 of us but he has a big living room ...

My video camera is a Panasonic NV-GS230 which is a miniDV tape based. It records in Standard Definition.

So, do you think, in my case, Option 4 is still the best ? Can you recommend a mic & stand, & what cables do I need ?

Thank alot for your help.







MartinR wrote:
Hi Ryan,
I do location filming of events like yours. My cameras all have an input for an external mic (stereo input). I considered four possibilities: 1) plugging into the venue's audio system, 2) using a separate audio recorder like the Zoom, 3) buying a couple of wireless mics or 4) buying good quality wired mics & the necessary cables & stands.

I went with #4 and it has worked out great. The main reasons were to record the audio with the video +in camera+ so I would not have to sync the two during post; and to keep the total cost down. I picked up 4 outstanding Audio-Technica mics on eBay for under $100. The stands were about $25 each, 50' cables about $30 each. I also picked up a 4-input mixer for $150. Plus some misc. cables, windscreens, etc. Total about $500.

In your case, you could get away with 2 decent dynamic mics, cables, and a Y-adapter to plug into your camcorder's mic input. This would enable stereo sound and you could place the mics near the chorus and run the cables to your camcorder. And I think you could keep the cost in the neighborhood of $200. ps. - you may even be able to rent this gear from a local audio/production house.

_Option 1_ wasn't viable. The venues generally don't want you plugging into their system and even if you do, you are dependent on them getting it right. Not.
_Option 2_ created too many problems. Separate audio that would have to be sync'd to the video during post. And even then it often drifts out of sync. After doing it this way a couple of times I got so frustrated I swore I'd never do it again.
_Option 3_ was the most expensive. While there are cheap wireless mics out there, I was not satisfied with the quality of the units that were less than about ~$250 - and that was for only 1 mic. And I still would have had to mix them. So this was the high cost option.

Apr 26, 2010 11:12 AM in response to RyanManUtd

Ryan -
First question is, +does your camcorder have an external mic input?+

If it does, and you are going to have a group of people singing, then I would get 2 dynamic mics, 2 stands, 2 mic cables and a Y-adapter (2x XLR to 1x 1/8" male stereo plug). The reason for 2 mics is so you will have stereo sound.

Mics - there are loads of them to choose from. You want a vocal mic, not an instrument mic, and make sure it has an XLR cable connection (not 1/4", TRS, RCA or 1/8"). For starters, take a look at the Shure SM58, it's a rock solid mic with a great reputation, been around for many years. You should be able to find used ones for $25-$50 USD. Similarly, the Audio-Technica pro 61. On the low end (but still quite good) are mics like the Samson Q4 or Shure PG48 And like I said before, you can find some great bargains on eBay.

Stands - here's a typical boom mic stand about as inexpensive as you can get.

Cables - you can get XLR microphone cables in almost any length. Here's a typical cable Some mics come with a cable. Shop around, you can find good cables cheap.

Y-adapter - XLR-to-1/8" stereo male Plug 1 mic into each XLR end, plug the 1/8" stereo plug into your camcorder's mic input.

Apr 26, 2010 1:55 PM in response to RyanManUtd

It all depends how loud they are and how far away you are.

If you were filming a choir from around 50 feet you shouldn't have any problem getting enough volume and decent quality using the camera mike.

Filming someone speaking at that distance would be a completely different matter. The volume would be low, allowing ambient sounds to be picked up and the audio's AGC would be boosting the sound and creating poor quality.

Apr 26, 2010 3:44 PM in response to Ian R. Brown

I must admit that I am genuinely amazed at the quality of the sound from my camcorder's built-in mic when the sound is medium level and I am close to my subject (up to 15' or perhaps 20').

But further away or when the sound levels are low, those mics sure do pick up motor noise from the camera, plus I have to make sure everyone is quiet around my camcorder (including myself). Those are real challenges to using the built-in mic.

For those reasons and more I migrated to external mics. In the process I got better sound because of the better mics, and eliminated the problems of motor noise and ambient noise (movement, talking, whispers, etc) in the vicinity of my camera during filming.

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Capturing sound some distance away

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