SATA PCI Controller vs.SATA/IDE converter?

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Level 1

85 points

SATA PCI Controller vs.SATA/IDE converter?

I'd like to add one or two 1TB hard drives to my MDD 1.25 Ghz. G4.

These being SATA, and the G4 has IDE (and/or ATA?) I seem to need a PCI card with a connector cable to the drives - -instead of the usual 14 pin ribbon connector and the power supply cable hook up.

So at OWC, I see the: FirmTek SeriTek/1S2 Serial ATA/150 Dual Channel Mac PCI Controller - Use Serial ATA (SATA) drives in any PowerMac with an available PCI Slot! The SeriTek/1S2 boosts overall system performance with data transfer rates of up to 150MBytes/sec or 1.5Gbits/sec.

[http://eshop.macsales.com/item/Firmtek/FTST1S2>

But as that's about $70 with shipping, I go to eBay to see what's there, and I find something called an IDE to SATA motherboard converter adapter. This seems to allow me to plug the SATA drive into the 14-pin ribbon connector...I'm not sure about the power supply cable, but I guess the PS 1 2 or 3 would plug in to the drive same as the ATA HD. This item offers the same data transfer rate of up to 1.5 Gbps.

This is a +Buy it Now+ item for $1. -which seems too good to be true, but you can see it here:

[http://cgi.ebay.com/IDE-To-Serial-ATA-SATA-HD-Motherboard-Converter-Adapter W0QQitemZ280421565829QQcategoryZ90715QQcmdZViewItemQQtrksidZ]

Question is, can I get by with this converter? It seems to be as fast as the Firmtek product - except that Firmtek has two SATA connections.

Also, someone on another forum thinks that the drive connected to bay 1 and 2 is faster than when connected to 3 and 4 (the carrier under the optical drive box).

Bottom line: even if the 1TB drive is a bit slower using it with an adapter, wouldn't it at least be the same transfer rate as the IDE drive? I'd be satisfied with that. Then again, I'm buying the 1TB drive (or maybe 2 of them) mainly for storage of video files. Or would it make a big difference using certain types of applications? I'm not into gaming..just Photoshop, Final Cut Express and iWork/Pages...mostly. Gambling away a dollar to find out is not going to break the bank, but I am curious..

Thanks for advice.

K.

Dual 1.25 GHz PM/G4, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Apr 29, 2010 1:22 AM

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Answer 1

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Apr 29, 2010 4:05 AM in response to Keith Rodan

Hi-

The adapter may work fine, but data rates will be limited to the rate of the ATA/100 (rear bay) or the ATA/66 (front bay) bus, depending on which it is attached to.

Basically, you will gain nothing as compared to a new WD ATA/100 drive on the ATA/100 bus of the MDD.

In no way will it allow data rates as fast as the PCI controller.

With an ATA/100 bus connected drive, one can excpect around 60-70 MB/s.
With ATA/66, around 45 MB/s.
Using the PCI controller will allow data rates of up to 120 MB/s due to the architecture of the PCI bus.
These are all maximum, achievable rates, which will vary whether read or write, and vary with file size.

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Answer 2

Keith Rodan Author

Level 1

85 points

Apr 29, 2010 11:17 AM in response to japamac

Thanks Japamac, (as always)

You've explained that using the adapter will result in much slower data transfer rates than with the PCI card, but if my intent is to use the 1TB Sata drives +just for storage alone+ - say on one or two of the 4 available buses, and then when I need the files to use in a video project, and transfer those files to the (faster) drive on the front bay ATA/100 bus - wouldn't that save me the cost of a controller card? In other words, the Satas would be in the carrier under the optical drive, and the two front bays, buses 1 and 2 would have the usual (and smaller capacity) ATA drives with the System files, Startup items, applications, and anything needing the higher data rates.

With Hitachi 1TB internal drives going for less than $90 now, it seems to be economical and efficient (no external drives to connect) to go this route and have the storage inside the computer. Again, I'm thinking of just a warehouse for files - not for thoroughbred performance, but so I can copy files to a faster drive to use when needed.

best,
Keith

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Answer 3

japamac

Level 7

24,400 points

Apr 29, 2010 2:35 PM in response to Keith Rodan

wouldn't that save me the cost of a controller card?

Yes, of course.

With Hitachi 1TB internal drives going for less than $90 now, it seems to be economical and efficient (no external drives to connect)

I totally agree on the economics of the drives.
Internal installation is also neat, without lots of extra cables and such.

Again, I'm thinking of just a warehouse for files - not for thoroughbred performance, but so I can copy files to a faster drive to use when needed.

That sounds fine.
It's good to know what to expect as far as performance, and, hopefully, there won't be any issues with space requirements of the adapter.

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Answer 4

Apr 29, 2010 4:46 PM in response to japamac

With an ATA/100 bus connected drive, one can expect around 60-70 MB/s.

That data rate is near the fastest reported steady-state rate provided by the best drives available today.

Using the PCI controller will allow data rates of up to 120 MB/s due to the architecture of the PCI bus.

Yes it will, but there are few drives that get to those numbers, and almost none that can maintain them.

Most users care more about whether their interfaces will be a bottleneck. ATA/100 is about the limit of what drives can do steady-state. ATA/100 is not a serious bottleneck at the moment.

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Answer 5

Apr 29, 2010 4:55 PM in response to japamac

The $1 adapter has what I see as a tragic flaw for the Mirrored drive Doors Macs. The 40 pin connector is a cable-end connector (40 holes). The adapter takes the place of the drive cable. I am not sure there is enough clearance in a Mirrored drive Doors to fit that little card in place of the drive cable.

In the ATA/100 position, it looks on mine like the motherboard connector has a side exit. So the board would intrude into the hinge area. That would mean when you shut the door, the board would break in half.

In the ATA/66 position, the connector has an upright exit, but is not at the edge of the motherboard. I am not sure you have enough space to swing that card through empty space when closing the door. It may smash into the side of the drives there.

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Answer 6

Keith Rodan Author

Level 1

85 points

Apr 29, 2010 6:45 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

(40-pin connector, sorry).

I think you're right. Looking at my MDD, I'm thinking the same thing. Too bad.

The only thing to do is possibly locate the drive in the lower optical bay above the fan and secure it somehow? The end might stick out and a connector extension might be necessary...

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Answer 7

Keith Rodan Author

Level 1

85 points

Apr 29, 2010 11:26 PM in response to Keith Rodan

+...in the lower optical bay above the fan...The end might stick out...+

Looks like the heat sink fills that space when closed. End of story.

Epilogue: (Plan B) Zip Zoom Fly sells a 2 TB Hitachi Sata drive for $129...and an external case for $12. after rebate.

Or, if I decide to go with the Firmtek PCI controller card after all, then it should even be possible to install two 2TB drives ⚠

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Answer 8

BDAqua

Level 10

250,259 points

Apr 29, 2010 11:36 PM in response to Keith Rodan

FWIW, for years I just had Hard Drives freely laying, not mounted in any way, in my AGPs, Quicksilvers & MDDs... it's not like their going to move with the Case just sitting there immobile! 😉

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Answer 9

Apr 30, 2010 6:20 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

This US$15 adapter may be a contender for adding SATA drives to a FAST IDE/ATA Bus, such as the rear ATA/100 Bus in a Mirrored drive doors. One reader here has reported success with it.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812119257&cmre=rosewill_SATA-_-12-119-257--Product

JapaMac is quite right that with an older G4 (or the "front" ATA/66 or slower drive positions on a Mirrored Drive Doors) use of its built-in ATA/66 Bus and such an adapter DOES provide a bottleneck, limiting performance for today's best drives. In that case the PCI card SATA Controller is superior.

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Answer 10

Apr 30, 2010 6:22 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

One other issue: will we have faster drives soon, which will make ATA/100 with adapter a bottleneck?

I believe the answer is YES. Solid State Drives (currently comparatively small and rather pricey) or hybrid drives that provide multiple levels of different types of cache to boost performance could appear in the market and change everything.

The issue is whether consumers will pay for that performance. In the past, consumers have been much more willing to pay for capacity than to pay for performance.

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Answer 11

kjnyc

Level 1

0 points

Apr 30, 2010 9:41 AM in response to Keith Rodan

It is a tight fit, especially in the front drive bay. I had two SATA drives installed in my MDD's front (ATA66) bay, briefly. The SATA power connectors on the adapter cable stuck out enough when connected that it took a lot of fiddling to keep them from being crunched by the ATA connector and the cable for the optical drive when I closed the case, and it was really still too tight for me to be comfortable with it. I wound up swapping them into the back bay, which meant I had to move my two ATA drives from the ATA100 bus to the ATA66. Then it was a question of whether the SATA cables I had on hand would reach. I had to move the SATA card to a different slot for the 18" cables to connect acceptably to the drives.

Another possible glitch I have run into is that SATA data and power connectors do not seem to be as robust as ATA data and standard power connectors. When I was trying to get the two SATA drives installed, I found that the same SATA cables fit more snugly on one drive than on the other. There were also very slight differences in fit between cables. It took some futzing to find one that would connect fairly snugly with the drive whose data connector was not the "fit" as that on the other drive. These variations in SATA connectors are somewhat troubling (to me, anyway). It's a good idea to have spare cables on hand in case you run into this.

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