greek polytonic

Question

greek polytonic

In Tiger there is a new "Greek Polytonic" keyboard (for Classic Greek). I have installed Adobe Fonts "Garamond Premier Pro" that contains classic greek fonts too. But when I type the vowels with acute accent, it is vertical over the letter and not inclined, e.g.: ό instead ´. Is it a bug due to Tiger Keyboard?

Regards,

Giorgio

iMac G4 1.25, Mac OS X (10.4.3)

Posted on Nov 22, 2005 12:06 PM

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Answer 1

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

115,970 points

Nov 22, 2005 1:38 PM in response to Giorgio Del Vecchio

It's not a keyboard issue. Some fonts may have a more vertical mark for this character. Check the "font variation" panel in Character Palette.

Exactly how such characters will appear can also depend on both the app and the font you are using. Apple apps normally work best with Lucida Grande. What app are you using Garamond in?

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Answer 2

Nov 22, 2005 10:33 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

I have seen the font variation in Character Palette: the acute mark is inclined in the vowels of Garamond Premier Pro. And if I select and insert the letter from Character Palette the acute mark is inclined. Only if I type the vowels from greek polytonic keyboard the mark is vertical.

I use Mellel 2.0. But also in Word for Mac the acute mark is vertical and not inclined.

Regards,

Giorgio

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Answer 3

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

115,970 points

Nov 23, 2005 5:39 AM in response to Giorgio Del Vecchio

What you describe is very strange, since the keyboard just generates the Unicode numbers that correspond to the character and has no influence on how it is displayed. It sounds like perhaps font substitution is occurring, with Lucida Grande or something else being displayed for that character instead of the Adobe font. Can you verify what font is being used for the character in Mellel and Word from the font menu? What happens in Text Edit (Rich Text mode)?

You might want to ask on the Mellel forums if anyone else has seen this with that Adobe font.

http://forum.redlers.com/viewforum.php?f=1

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Answer 4

Nov 23, 2005 6:04 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

In Text Edit it's the same: I have set Garamond Premier Pro as default font in app. and the acute accent is vertical too.
I have found out that for Garamond Premier pro exist two accent in Character palette, Font variation, gliphs: α, ε, υ, etc. with "tonos" ("vertical" accent) and the same vowels with "oxia", i. e. acute accent inclinated correctly. The same happens with Lucida grande also: only with Times all works fine. It seems as if the keyboard (or the System) chose the vowel with "tonos" instead "oxia", but I don't understand why...
However, I have sent this question also to Redlex support, makers of Mellel, and I wait for an answer.

Regards and thanks.

Giorgio

Ps. Have you any other idea?

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Answer 5

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

115,970 points

Nov 23, 2005 7:12 AM in response to Giorgio Del Vecchio

Vowels with tonos and oxia are distinct characters in Unicode. alpha tonos is 3A0C, alpha oxia is 1F71. Some fonts (like Gentium) make no distinction in the glyphs for these, while others do. Lucida Grande makes tonos more vertical than oxia (but not totally vertical). A keyboard can only make one or the other from a given key combination. Could you check those two points in Character Palette for your Garamond and see how they differ?

Normal Times doesn't have Greek, as far as I know, so something else must be displaying. Setting the default font in an OS X app does not guarantee that every character will be in that font. If a character is missing, one will often be substituted from another font.

I will check exactly which keys in the Apple polytonic layout make tonos and oxia.

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Answer 6

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

115,970 points

Nov 23, 2005 7:57 AM in response to Giorgio Del Vecchio

PS Sorry, wrong number for alpha tonos: it's 03AC. The Apple polytonic layout generates tonos vowels only. There seems to be no provision for oxias. I can provide links for other layouts that may have this capability if needed.

Also it looks like the Times in Tiger does have Greek after all, in which tonos and oxia are identical and well-slanted.

Here's a discussion on the angle issue that might be of interest:

http://www.typophile.com/node/15933

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Answer 7

Tom Gewecke

Level 10

115,970 points

Nov 23, 2005 8:48 AM in response to Giorgio Del Vecchio

PSS Here are links to two keyboard layouts that will let you access the oxias required for more slanted acute accents in Lucida Grande and Adobe fonts:

Sophokeys (does oxias only)

http://www.sourcecod.com/sophokeys/

GreekPolytonic.bundle (does both oxias and tonos)

http://homepage.mac.com/thgewecke/fs/FileSharing9.html

I think most other fonts have oxia and tonos the same and well slanted, so that the Apple layout which does tonos only should work ok.

eMac G4/700 384/40 Mac OS X (10.4)

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