Q: Unknown data usage early morning

I think changes are afoot. I just logged into my AT&T Wireless account. Miraculously, it doesn't show ANY large middle-of-the-night data transfers in the past week. It also says this:

UD1536: Due to a recent data/messaging feature change, your included in plan usage may not be accurately displayed at this time.

I don't know if this is a sign that AT&T is fixing their billing system across the board, or if my AT&T customer service angel is working behind the scenes on my behalf.

Ironically, I got a letter from the FCC a couple days ago, confirming that they have received my formal complaint.

Wow, something is up. I just logged into my ATT plan, looked at my usage history. I had switched to the limited data plan ($15/200 MB) based on my past usage as of May 2010, where I never really exceeded 150 MB (I am around WiFi most of the time). Then all of a sudden I was getting hit with overages (although nothing changed), large mysterious downloads, etc, so after complaining ATT took me back to unlimited plan.

Now I logged in and here my ATT reported usages:

Nov 09 83MB
Dec 09 71 MB
Jan 10 173 MB
Feb 10 68 MB
Mar 10 130 MB
Apr 10 122 MB
May 10 147 MB (* SWITCHED HERE to 200 MB)
Jun 10 216 MB
July 10 274 MB
Aug 10 327 MB (* SWITCHED BACK TO UNLIMITED)
Sep 10 332 MB
Oct 10 128 MB

Notice there is a sudden jump in Jun-Sep which keep getting more and more (although my usage did not change at all). The mysterious large transfers at strange hours also began and they kept getting larger and larger. Then in Oct it seems back to normal pattern. And my mysterious multi-megabyte (20-80) early morning transfers when I was not using the phone have also disappeared.

I had the same arguments as everyone else with ATT, was told the same silly things, and I even tracked iPhone reported usage vs ATT (they did not match, iPhone showed much less), did all the suggested fixes, even changed phones (went to IP4, came back to 3GS), none made a difference.

Interested to see how this works out. And if ATT will give me a refund for the months I was forced back into a larger plan because of their errors.

Edmund Pirali wrote:
Interested to see how this works out. And if ATT will give me a refund for the months I was forced back into a larger plan because of their errors.

If they are ATT errors then why are users in other parts of the world, with completely separate service providers, are reporting exactly the same thing?

I'm also a little confused as to why it is automatically assumed by many people that the figures reported by iOS are correct when there is no way of verifying them - the only other source of this information is ATT.

The lack of any way of tracking data usage by application is ludicrous when we now have the possibility of third party apps running in the background and (in the UK at least) no option to have an unlimited data plan. Regardless of the source of this problem this is an omission that should be rectified promptly.

Message was edited by: ed2020

If they are ATT errors then why are users in other parts of the world, with completely separate service providers, are reporting exactly the same thing?

I'm also a little confused as to why it is automatically assumed by many people that the figures reported by iOS are correct when there is no way of verifying them - the only other source of this information is ATT.

The lack of any way of tracking data usage by application is ludicrous when we now have the possibility of third party apps running in the background and (in the UK at least) no option to have an unlimited data plan. Regardless of the source of this problem this is an omission that should be rectified promptly.

All good points, there is no way to know. I guess I am assuming the iOS cellular data usage counter is accurate and can not be "circumvented" by any third party app, even if it sends data in the background. Also because I am very careful about not leaving any third part apps "running" in the background, and iOS background tasks are rather limited in what they can do, I do not believe they can stay suspended in background, THEN send data many hours later (unlike Android).

So the only other option would be iOS sending large amounts of data AND not registering the count. And I just don't see Apple doing that really. But I can see ATT having data reporting errors and NOT acknowledging or taking seriously use reports. Trust me, after spending a lot of time reporting tower problems with ATT that they claim "isn't there" and "its your phone" (when everyone else in the office has the same issue and I have been through 3 iPhones), then finally acknowledging they have an issue with a tower and don't plan to fix it anytime soon, you'll have to pardon me if I don't believe ATT.

Edmund Pirali wrote:

If they are ATT errors then why are users in other parts of the world, with completely separate service providers, are reporting exactly the same thing?

I'm also a little confused as to why it is automatically assumed by many people that the figures reported by iOS are correct when there is no way of verifying them - the only other source of this information is ATT.

The lack of any way of tracking data usage by application is ludicrous when we now have the possibility of third party apps running in the background and (in the UK at least) no option to have an unlimited data plan. Regardless of the source of this problem this is an omission that should be rectified promptly.

All good points, there is no way to know. I guess I am assuming the iOS cellular data usage counter is accurate and can not be "circumvented" by any third party app, even if it sends data in the background. Also because I am very careful about not leaving any third part apps "running" in the background, and iOS background tasks are rather limited in what they can do, I do not believe they can stay suspended in background, THEN send data many hours later (unlike Android).

In terms of suspended applications I think you're probably correct, but then not all background applications are suspended. It is certainly possible for background processes to send and receive data whilst remaining in the background.

So the only other option would be iOS sending large amounts of data AND not registering the count. And I just don't see Apple doing that really. But I can see ATT having data reporting errors and NOT acknowledging or taking seriously use reports. Trust me, after spending a lot of time reporting tower problems with ATT that they claim "isn't there" and "its your phone" (when everyone else in the office has the same issue and I have been through 3 iPhones), then finally acknowledging they have an issue with a tower and don't plan to fix it anytime soon, you'll have to pardon me if I don't believe ATT.

I see your point. Until I'm able to verify my usage myself I wouldn't believe my service provider either. However I won't take Apple's usage figures on face value either. Service provider's network monitoring has probably been in place for some time though, so they have had longer to fix faults in it. iOS 4's multitasking for third party apps is new, so I can easily accept that bugs in the OS kernel and APIs may result in inaccurate (or incomplete) information. Equally third party developers are working with APIs they are not completely familiar with, to do tasks which are new to the device, so I can also believe a third party app could be generating the kind of daily usage people are reporting.

My guess would be that the problem is a combination of software bugs in the iPhone OS, poorly written applications and ATT designing their billing system to present usage in a format which benefits them and not the end consumer (there must be some aggregation going on, however when and how this occurs is far from clear). I'd be very surprised if it's a hardware issue with the iPhone, so having three iPhones manifesting the same issue is what I'd expect - the Operating System and apps you had uninstalled were presumably the same on each device?

ed2020 wrote:

Edmund Pirali wrote:
Interested to see how this works out. And if ATT will give me a refund for the months I was forced back into a larger plan because of their errors.

If they are ATT errors then why are users in other parts of the world, with completely separate service providers, are reporting exactly the same thing?

I'm also a little confused as to why it is automatically assumed by many people that the figures reported by iOS are correct when there is no way of verifying them - the only other source of this information is ATT.

AT&T is this you?

The lack of any way of tracking data usage by application is ludicrous when we now have the possibility of third party apps running in the background and (in the UK at least) no option to have an unlimited data plan. Regardless of the source of this problem this is an omission that should be rectified promptly.

Message was edited by: ed2020

AT&T, really, is this you?

ed2020 wrote:
In terms of suspended applications I think you're probably correct, but then not all background applications are suspended. It is certainly possible for background processes to send and receive data whilst remaining in the background.

All non-OS (Apple) apps that are in the task bar, which have NOT registered for a background service (one of the seven such), are off the scheduler.

I see your point. Until I'm able to verify my usage myself I wouldn't believe my service provider either. However I won't take Apple's usage figures on face value either. Service provider's network monitoring has probably been in place for some time though, so they have had longer to fix faults in it. iOS 4's multitasking for third party apps is new, so I can easily accept that bugs in the OS kernel and APIs may result in inaccurate (or incomplete) information. Equally third party developers are working with APIs they are not completely familiar with, to do tasks which are new to the device, so I can also believe a third party app could be generating the kind of daily usage people are reporting.

Dear AT&T, Operating systems such as FreeBSD, in fact all BSDs, Linux, Solaris and in fact most modern UNIXes can track network usage PER PROCESS to the byte.

If anything, I'd put my money on Settings->Genral->Usage->Cellular Network Data as opposed to what AT&T reports. Number one reason, as a billing company they have vested interest in reporting larger numbers. Apple doesn't care, as Apple had always wanted unlimited Internet access (the original plan).

My guess would be that the problem is a combination of software bugs in the iPhone OS, poorly written applications and ATT designing their billing system to present usage in a format which benefits them and not the end consumer (there must be some aggregation going on, however when and how this occurs is far from clear). I'd be very surprised if it's a hardware issue with the iPhone, so having three iPhones manifesting the same issue is what I'd expect - the Operating System and apps you had uninstalled were presumably the same on each device?

Really, Ma-Bell?

They why is it then that in the last two days we see users posting in this very forum that all of a sudden they've seen NO overnight charges, after the FCC has acknowledged receipt of complaints filed?

BTW, I still see small transfers (9-30 KB) at times about 1:30 and/or 3:30 in the morning as late as currently reported at AT&T's web site (the night before).

lightsp33d wrote:
AT&T is this you?
AT&T, really, is this you?

Do you have nothing more constructive to say about my the first of my posts you replied to? Nope? Okay, you stick to the baseless insinuations then.

lightsp33d wrote:

ed2020 wrote:
In terms of suspended applications I think you're probably correct, but then not all background applications are suspended. It is certainly possible for background processes to send and receive data whilst remaining in the background.

All non-OS (Apple) apps that are in the task bar, which have NOT registered for a background service (one of the seven such), are off the scheduler.

I see your point. Until I'm able to verify my usage myself I wouldn't believe my service provider either. However I won't take Apple's usage figures on face value either. Service provider's network monitoring has probably been in place for some time though, so they have had longer to fix faults in it. iOS 4's multitasking for third party apps is new, so I can easily accept that bugs in the OS kernel and APIs may result in inaccurate (or incomplete) information. Equally third party developers are working with APIs they are not completely familiar with, to do tasks which are new to the device, so I can also believe a third party app could be generating the kind of daily usage people are reporting.

Dear AT&T, Operating systems such as FreeBSD, in fact all BSDs, Linux, Solaris and in fact most modern UNIXes can track network usage PER PROCESS to the byte.

Yes I know. And in every single one of those you listed it's possible for users to see that data. And yet we can't in iOS. If you want to believe it's accurate without anything resembling validation that's up to you.

If anything, I'd put my money on Settings->Genral->Usage->Cellular Network Data as opposed to what AT&T reports. Number one reason, as a billing company they have vested interest in reporting larger numbers.

Presumably they also have a vested interest in not committing fraud.

My guess would be that the problem is a combination of software bugs in the iPhone OS, poorly written applications and ATT designing their billing system to present usage in a format which benefits them and not the end consumer (there must be some aggregation going on, however when and how this occurs is far from clear). I'd be very surprised if it's a hardware issue with the iPhone, so having three iPhones manifesting the same issue is what I'd expect - the Operating System and apps you had uninstalled were presumably the same on each device?

Really, Ma-Bell?

These childish little digs add nothing to your argument.

They why is it then that in the last two days we see users posting in this very forum that all of a sudden they've seen NO overnight charges, after the FCC has acknowledged receipt of complaints filed?

BTW, I still see small transfers (9-30 KB) at times about 1:30 and/or 3:30 in the morning as late as currently reported at AT&T's web site (the night before).

Has every user who was experiencing large data transfers experienced the same thing?

I notice you've ignored my question about why, if it is ATT who are at fault, there are users from other countries with different service providers reporting the same issue. It's not a difficult concept - there is a common element to each reported case and it is not ATT.

ed2020 wrote:

lightsp33d wrote:
AT&T is this you?
AT&T, really, is this you?

Do you have nothing more constructive to say about my the first of my posts you replied to? Nope? Okay, you stick to the baseless insinuations then.

Hahahaa, Ma-Bell, I really laughed out loud. I like fun stuff and I certainly like laughing.

Anyway, yes Ma-Bell, I can contribute something constructive:

$ cat /proc/net/dev | grep <wifi interface>
... data traffic transmitted to the byte, broken down in TX and RX ...
$ cat /proc/net/dev | grep <3g interface>
... data traffic transmitted to the byte, broken down in TX and RX ...

"+Now, let's display the second one in the Usage menu and call it ``Cellular Network Data'', and we can say ``Sent'' for TX and ``Received'' for RX.+"

Ta-ta, AT&T. Mmmm-wah!

lightsp33d wrote:

ed2020 wrote:

lightsp33d wrote:
AT&T is this you?
AT&T, really, is this you?

Do you have nothing more constructive to say about my the first of my posts you replied to? Nope? Okay, you stick to the baseless insinuations then.

Hahahaa, Ma-Bell, I really laughed out loud. I like fun stuff and I certainly like laughing.

Anyway, yes Ma-Bell, I can contribute something constructive:

$ cat /proc/net/dev | grep <wifi interface>
... data traffic transmitted to the byte, broken down in TX and RX ...
$ cat /proc/net/dev | grep <3g interface>
... data traffic transmitted to the byte, broken down in TX and RX ...

"+Now, let's display the second one in the Usage menu and call it ``Cellular Network Data'', and we can say ``Sent'' for TX and ``Received'' for RX.+"

I don't believe I said iOS doesn't record this level of detail. I said it doesn't make it available to end users. And in what way does this prove that the numbers shown under usage are accurate and complete?

Ta-ta, AT&T. Mmmm-wah!

Do you believe you've proven a point..? I honestly can't work out what you think it is.

PS. If you re-read my posts you'll see I've said that, at the moment, I don't believe Apple or ATT. I've put forward a theory, which I accept could be completely wrong. Because you don't agree with my theory you imply I'm here posting on behalf of ATT. How mature!

ed2020 wrote:
I notice you've ignored my question about why, if it is ATT who are at fault, there are users from other countries with different service providers reporting the same issue. It's not a difficult concept - there is a common element to each reported case and it is not ATT.

Probably because they use the same billing system. Each cellular company does not write its own biller; there are a few companies that write billing systems that are sold to multiple carriers. It is not ALL countries or carriers whose users report the problem it is a few.

ed2020 wrote:

lightsp33d wrote:

Yes I know. And in every single one of those you listed it's possible for users to see that data. And yet we can't in iOS. If you want to believe it's accurate without anything resembling validation that's up to you.

Dear AT&T, *+yes, we can+* in iOS. It's in Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data. iOS is based on FreeBSD. It really is a UNIX system running on your iPhone.

Presumably they also have a vested interest in not committing fraud.

Ma-Bell, let's not use such harsh words. Let's call it an "+accounting error+", or "+programming error+", that's so much better. No one is doing anything wrong or bad, it's just a "+small error in the billing software+". See? That's better. There, we're already learning and growing together. Now as to the matter whether they've known about it and for how long, lala-la-lala-lalala-lala, everyone sing with me.

Really, Ma-Bell?

These childish little digs add nothing to your argument.

Hahahaaha, you're funny and I LIKE YOU! You make me laugh, I like that. I think we'll have a lot of fun together.

BTW, I still see small transfers (9-30 KB) at times about 1:30 and/or 3:30 in the morning as late as currently reported at AT&T's web site (the night before).

Has every user who was experiencing large data transfers experienced the same thing?

That's what this thread is all about.

I notice you've ignored my question about why, if it is ATT who are at fault, there are users from other countries with different service providers reporting the same issue. It's not a difficult concept - there is a common element to each reported case and it is not ATT.

I'm not sure that it is the *exact same problem.* Maybe a roaming billing error, maybe a one-off incident, but most of the users here are based in the US.

ed2020 wrote:
I don't believe I said iOS doesn't record this level of detail. I said it doesn't make it available to end users. And in what way does this prove that the numbers shown under usage are accurate and complete?

Hello my dear Bell-a! Why wouldn't iOS make it available if it already records it? Are you suggesting it randomizes the data and then it makes it available in Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data? Again why would we not trust the iOS numbers? It is you, Ma-Bell, who wanted to limit our relationship with a cap on our connection, but our devices wanted to be in constant connection without charges and caps--and this is how they were from the beginning until you changed, sadly for the worse.

And now I see you're trying to put into doubt our dedication for each other, while it was you who's changed.

Ta-ta, AT&T. Mmmm-wah!

Do you believe you've proven a point..? I honestly can't work out what you think it is.

PS. If you re-read my posts you'll see I've said that, at the moment, I don't believe Apple or ATT.

Dear AT&T, you're trying to cast uncertainly and doubt, into empirical data which shows that people on the unlimited plan, have low usage, and when they switch to the plan +you proposed+, then they get consistent overages, of 2x-4x more than their usual usage under the unlimited plan, and resulting in high fees, in the 200MB/$15 per month plan. For example: usual usage of 80-148 MB per month while under the Unlimited plan. Once a switch to the 200MB/$15 per month plan, the same persons' usage would consistently be over the 200 MB usage per month. And when they switched back after complaining, you switched them back to the Unlimited plan ($30/month).

This would for example happen, when your statisticians miscalculated the "honey" limit or, for example, when people changed their habits or for example, when people have WiFi available for more hours of the day than when the stats analysis was done.

This would result in your 200MB/$15 per month cap not bring in the expected revenue due to non-existing but predicted overages. Due to
a) WiFi being more readily available,
b) People being more aware of their cellular data usage,
c) stats error.

So, AT&T, $30/month offers smaller margin than the $15/month for $200+extra charges which would offer HUGE margin, had the users not have WiFi as readily available and/or change their usage habits while on 3G.

I've put forward a theory, which I accept could be completely wrong. Because you don't agree with my theory you imply I'm here posting on behalf of ATT. How mature!

AT&T, I still don't know what your theory is? If you tell it to me, perhaps the people reading this forum would test it. Please tell us the preposition and thesis of your theory, and the expected result.

Ma-Bell, how about another date in say....oh, two minutes? Kisses!

Lawrence Finch wrote:
Probably because they use the same billing system. Each cellular company does not write its own biller; there are a few companies that write billing systems that are sold to multiple carriers.

That certainly sounds plausible.

It is not ALL countries or carriers whose users report the problem it is a few.

Yep, I know.