Q: Unknown data usage early morning

lightsp33d wrote:
AT&T, I still don't know what your theory is? If you tell it to me, perhaps the people reading this forum would test it. Please tell us the preposition and thesis of your theory, and the expected result.

Then I can only suggest you try re-reading the first two posts I added to this thread today.

Are you suggesting it randomizes the data and then it makes it available in Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data?

I'm suggesting we have no way of verifying the information in iOS and we have no way of verifying the information AT&T have either. Comparing the summary data to the detailed logs does not prove they are accurate and complete. It merely proves they are consistent.

Dear AT&T, you're trying to cast uncertainly and doubt

Yes I am. Your analysis is incomplete because we do not have all the facts. Your "empirical data" does not prove what you claim it proves. I think you know this as well as I do, hence the unsuccessful attempts to wind me up.

ed2020 wrote:
Then I can only suggest you try re-reading the first two posts I added to this thread today.

Hello AT&T! It's been a long 5 minutes, since you last wrote and I was beginning to worry you had cast my dedication to you away. So I kept re-reading your letters of uncertainty and doubt over and over again. You sadden me my love. I can see now that your first two letters were answered in detail by Edmund and Lawrence.

Are you suggesting it randomizes the data and then it makes it available in Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data?

I'm suggesting we have no way of verifying the information in iOS and we have no way of verifying the information AT&T have either.

Of course there is, AT&T. It's called source code. It's called intention. It's called greed. It's called "resetting it at the beginning of a billing cycle". It's called tracking it via a Linux router. It's called such-and-such app from the app store. There are many ways to prove your infidelity to the love I've given to you my love.

Comparing the summary data to the detailed logs does not prove they are accurate and complete. It merely proves they are consistent.

No, AT&T--you cannot prove "consistency". And consistency is what this thread is all about.

Dear AT&T, you're trying to cast uncertainly and doubt

Yes I am. Your analysis is incomplete because we do not have all the facts. Your "empirical data" does not prove what you claim it proves. I think you know this as well as I do, hence the unsuccessful attempts to wind me up.

Why my love? Would would you be the only writer here of these love letters to want to so actively cast uncertainty and doubt in our undying relationship? No Christmas bonus without a press release? No press release with FCC breathing down your neck? Device diversification bringie no doh likie the the iPhonie?

Let's meet again My-Bell! What place is good for you? Here? Okay. In 10 minutes? Oh, I cannot wait!

ToddBradley wrote:
I think changes are afoot. I just logged into my AT&T Wireless account. Miraculously, it doesn't show ANY large middle-of-the-night data transfers in the past week. It also says this:

UD1536: Due to a recent data/messaging feature change, your included in plan usage may not be accurately displayed at this time.

I don't know if this is a sign that AT&T is fixing their billing system across the board, or if my AT&T customer service angel is working behind the scenes on my behalf.

Ironically, I got a letter from the FCC a couple days ago, confirming that they have received my formal complaint.

I just checked my account and note several changes:

1. No ~2 AM transfers since October 14.

2. The site no longer shows data as "sent". Instead the column heading has been changed to "To/From" and where "sent" used to be on each line it now says "phone"

Again looking at the SDK I am pretty sure background apps can not stay active and keep sending data. There are sdks for background tasks that can stream audio, finish downloads, etc. But not just run in background.

That's very interesting.

I just checked my AT&T online account too and concur with what you found.

So--- AT&T has changed the reports. This is a RED flag.

I also see as what was previously posted---- that when I logged into iTunes and removed the participation in the Apple improvement plan-- that from that date that I removed it 10/19/2010--- there is no early morning data usage for 10/20 and 10/21. The report ends here and their (AT&T) disclaimer is reports are delayed--- so that's some delay with 10/21/2010 at 6:04 pm being the cutoff.

I suspect there is or was a major AT&T billing issue--- it appears they are harvesting the data and then parsing it. I wonder if some programmer made some math errors?

Not that I want to add to speculation within these threads--- the time lag of the reporting data back to the Web interface is pretty long--- if the early morning data usage is gone then WONDERFUL.

But my question as I am sure the question by many is why?

Can you trust the billing?

I think for the .99 cents the app DataMan http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/dataman-monitor-geotag-your/id393282873?mt=8 is worth having to at least validate a user's data usage.

Without some statistical tool what argument can anyone make to AT&T that their data usage is too high?

The false sense of security that users have (I had) is that because they still have an unlimited data plan that it doesn't matter.

It matters for two reasons.

First reason - read the AT&T Terms of Service.

Second reason - the rates and tariffs for these services change and will likely change again-- nothing stays the same.

I deleted my iTunes participation of Apple gathering info on my iPhone on Oct 19th-- and for Oct 20 and 21st there is no early morning data usage. The report (AT&T online) cuts off there on the 20th when I just logged in. It would be nice to know the data for the past 4 days too.

So maybe good news? Yet as another posted noted---- AT&T has changed the online report format and note that the lag time to post to the web portal is pretty long 4 days delay--- that's a huge lag time suggesting AT&T is parsing data and I'd wonder if some programming mistake as a math error is to fault?

Still lingering in everyone's mind though is can the billing be trusted?

lightsp33d wrote:

ed2020 wrote:
Then I can only suggest you try re-reading the first two posts I added to this thread today.

Hello AT&T! It's been a long 5 minutes, since you last wrote and I was beginning to worry you had cast my dedication to you away. So I kept re-reading your letters of uncertainty and doubt over and over again. You sadden me my love. I can see now that your first two letters were answered in detail by Edmund and Lawrence.

Are you suggesting it randomizes the data and then it makes it available in Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data?

I'm suggesting we have no way of verifying the information in iOS and we have no way of verifying the information AT&T have either.

Of course there is, AT&T. It's called source code. It's called intention. It's called greed. It's called "resetting it at the beginning of a billing cycle". It's called tracking it via a Linux router. It's called such-and-such app from the app store. There are many ways to prove your infidelity to the love I've given to you my love.

Source code? For iOS? And where would that be available from?

Tracking cellular network data with a Linux router? How?

And would these be the iPhone apps that use the exact same APIs that iOS's usage screen uses? You consider that verification?

Comparing the summary data to the detailed logs does not prove they are accurate and complete. It merely proves they are consistent.

No, AT&T--you cannot prove "consistency". And consistency is what this thread is all about.

So comparing the iPhone's detailed logs to the summary screen doesn't prove the totals are consistent? Okay!

Dear AT&T, you're trying to cast uncertainly and doubt

Yes I am. Your analysis is incomplete because we do not have all the facts. Your "empirical data" does not prove what you claim it proves. I think you know this as well as I do, hence the unsuccessful attempts to wind me up.

Why my love? Would would you be the only writer here of these love letters to want to so actively cast uncertainty and doubt in our undying relationship?

Because you are stating your opinions as absolute fact and claiming proof where none exists.

I don't know whether the cause of this problem is AT&T's fault or Apple's fault. Neither does anybody else contributing to this thread. What I do know is that now the FCC are involved there would be little point in AT&T planting stooges in these forums to try to cover up any of their culpability - we're going to find out the truth sooner or later.

No Christmas bonus without a press release? No press release with FCC breathing down your neck? Device diversification bringie no doh likie the the iPhonie?

Again I have to wonder why, if you're so sure that you are correct, you feel the need to continue to imply that I am in any way connected with AT&T. I can only assume that as I cannot disprove it you think it is annoying me. I can assure you that it is not.

Message was edited by: ed2020

Little more data and my 2 cents on this topic.
My billing cycle starts on the 18th and so I reset the phone's counter that day at midnight. I am on 200Mb plan.

This morning I got txt that I have used 65% of my data allowance (~140Mb) already. However, my phone only shows ~23.5Mb usage. This was caused by 2 data charges NOT registered by the phone on Sat/Sun night:

10/23 06.39PM DATA 120856KB
10/24 12.27AM DATA 8758KB

These charges were not registered by the phone's counter. I called AT$T and the rep (although very nice) tried to convince me that it's delayed pooling of large data transfers. First, it would have to be a transfer from BEFORE 18th. And since mt previous bill was ~68Mb (so no way 120Mb transfer happened during that month either) it would have to be even older than that. Second, I don't use 3G for that (imagine how long it would take to transfer that much data over their lousy network!), I am always on WiFi.

The rep did however take my complaint and offered $15 credit in case this leads to an overage. I told her that's very nice but I still have zero confidence in their billing system and will therefore keep monitoring my account and call them again next time I get an unreasonable charge on my account.

My conclusions from this event and other posters would be as follows:
- given how easy it was to convince them that it's an error I believe they are aware there is a problem with the system
- they offered credit easily too - I don't think they are charging people overages deliberately - I think they are simply clueless what's going on with the billing. Plus, they are probably under pressure from FCC by now after all the complaints that people here filed.
- if ATT is not doing this on purpose then I'm not sure whose at fault. Their billing generates phantom charges? Apple has something in an iPhone that communicates with their server without logging it as cellular data? No clue. But I believe they have no clue either. That's why they have been so eager to give people money back or switch them to old unlimited.

First part was report, second is speculation. Hope it helps whoever is keeping track of all this mess.

I am gathering data and appreciate all the posts in this thread.

thank you for sharing your experiences!

Oh, one more piece to the puzzle that I just realized. Not sure it it's related.

I send regular txt every day, but almost never any type of MMS. That night (Oct 23rd) I sent a Pict msg (MMS) at 6.23pm. As you saw, the data charge started at 6.29pm. Now I understand that MMS, even though they do use cellular data (if you turn that off you can't send or receive them) they are not charged as data since they are charged per occurrence under your texting plan. But what if glitch happened there? What if something got "stuck" and logged incorrectly? And what about the phone - would sending/receiving MMS be logged by iPhone as cellular data?

It would be interesting to know if other people also noticed correlation between sending/receiving MMS and noticing phantom data charges. Theoretically, MMS are not part of cellular data but in practice - they are. And unlike any other data sent/received by iPhone, these have to be handled by 3G/EDGE, never by WiFi.

You are correct- SMS/MMS is data but billed under "messaging" and should be separate from the data usage plan.

I believe that users of the original iPhone (2G AT&T) are probably more prone to spoofing.

I also believe that the billing system as it parses data to the web interface (for users review) and to/for the billing output/system is still in question.

Just logged into my online AT&T account and noted:

10/24 12:03 AM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 437KB

Now-- prior to my taking advice from other posters within this thread-- my early morning data usage showed up at 2:00 am or sometime in that hour consistently. On 10/19/2010 I disabled in iTunes participating in Apples data collection for better experience program. The above charge is the first one since 10/19. I was not up or even using my iPhone at that hour.

A prior poster noted that AT&T just recently changed the format of the online report--- they did. Now I wonder if they changed something else? (ie) instead of 2:14 am now midnight or 12:03 am????

I encourage everyone to keep posting!

Just logged into my online AT&T account and noted:

10/24 12:03 AM phone Internet/MEdia Net Sent 437KB

Now-- prior to my taking advice from other posters within this thread-- my early morning data usage showed up at 2:00 am or sometime in that hour consistently. On 10/19/2010 I disabled in iTunes participating in Apples data collection for better experience program. The above charge is the first one since 10/19. I was not up or even using my iPhone at that hour.

*YES- I THINK YOU ARE CORRECT--- AT&T is MAKING CHANGES!*

ed2020 wrote:
Source code? For iOS? And where would that be available from?

I'm sure that if it needs to be made available for a purpose involving a large number of people against a large and fat corporation, it would be made available.

Tracking cellular network data with a Linux router? How?

AT&T... Wouldn't you like to know now would you? It's possible!

And would these be the iPhone apps that use the exact same APIs that iOS's usage screen uses? You consider that verification?

Didn't we establish that UNIX (what iOS is) can track usages PER PROCESS to the byte? Didn't we also establish that Apple has NO REASON to hide or mutilate the data it presents to have been sent and received via the cellular data interface? Recall my "cat /proc/net/dev | grep <wifi inteface>" post.

Apple, who wants unlimited internet plans for all of it's devices, obviously has no reason to mis-represent the cellular data usage via Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data. The usage presented there is absolute. It is what the physical interface has transfered (RX and TX). I'm sure that if FCC want's to know how iOS calculates it and if the FCC wants to see iOS source code, Apple would show it to the FCC.

AT&T, who is in the position of losing exclusivity, sees itself no longer obliged by the contract of iPhone exclusivity to provide unlimited data plan, and started charging for it, but miscalculated the "honey" zone. AT&T have a VESTED INTEREST in the billing system having an "overestimating error".

So comparing the iPhone's detailed logs to the summary screen doesn't prove the totals are consistent? Okay!

No, it only shows AT&T overcharging. It *shows what users are already noticing*, namely that *+users are being charged for usage that they didn't initiate+*, as all the posts of this thread are all about. Then they go to Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data and try to figure it out, by say resetting it at the beginning of a new bill cycle.

Because you are stating your opinions as absolute fact and claiming proof where none exists.

Nope! I've never stated my opinions as absolute fact. Please quote me.

I don't know whether the cause of this problem is AT&T's fault or Apple's fault.

Here! This really is *the only thing* your posts are all about. This is the ONLY PREMISE of all your messages. You're doing your job well, casting uncertainty and doubt.

Neither does anybody else contributing to this thread.

No, but they are suspecting AT&T, since it is AT&T that has a vested interest in users using LARGE amounts of CELLULAR DATA, especially the ones on the 200MB/month for $15+charging for overages. Because if a user on such a plan goes over their limit, instantly AT&T makes more money than either other monthly plan. This is very sneaky of AT&T, you have to applaud them for being so clever in designing this the way they did. But what they miscalculated is the higher (now) availability of WiFi. So I suspect, their "honey limit" of 200MB/month doesn't bring the revenue they expected.

As WiFi becomes more and more available, they'll see themselves in wanting to lower the limit even more.

Eventually, in the (near?) future, with all those appliance devices having WiFi/3G/4G capability, the medium would be as ubiquitous as air. It's inevitable (just like having a personal computer has become.)

What I do know is that now the FCC are involved there would be little point in AT&T planting stooges in these forums to try to cover up any of their culpability - we're going to find out the truth sooner or later.

No! There is *A LOT OF POINT* in AT&T planting "stooges" in these forums. All AT&T needs to do is cast uncertainty and doubt in order to sway the FCC investigators. Even surreptitiously, subconscious doubt will affect FCC's investigation.

Again I have to wonder why, if you're so sure that you are correct, you feel the need to continue to imply that I am in any way connected with AT&T. I can only assume that as I cannot disprove it you think it is annoying me. I can assure you that it is not.

1) You are *THE ONLY ONE* to *openly and publicly* in this forum defend AT&T and +cast uncertainty and doubt+ that AT&T may have correct billing and Apple may be misrepresenting usages in Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network data. I'd love to take excerpts from your postings on this forum, but I really don't have time for this right now. I can do so however if you continue to defend them. I can, for example, take out excerpts from your postings here and organize them by date and time to show that you really are AT&T.

2) For someone living in the UK, you sure love AT&T. This is unusual.

3) You started posting your unusual messages exactly when FCC got involved and when AT&T started changing the layout, naming, labels, etc in the customers' bills.

Analyzing your letters carefully, anyone can see that you have *one and only one purpose*: +to make users doubt that it may not be AT&T's fault+, and +to make users uncertain about what the problem is+. That is, your purpose of posting here is to create confusion, uncertainty and doubt. You don't want to post results from your phone, you don't want to complain, you don't ask questions, you don't suggest apps or how to investigate the problem, you don't want to post your experiences with AT&T's rep (you live in the UK after all, supposedly), you don't want to suggest clues or your experience, just like ALL OTHER USERS WHO POSTED ON THIS FORUM, all you want to do is cast uncertainty and doubt that, and here is your premise "+it may not be AT&T; maybe AT&T's billing is correct; you cannot trust iOS's own Settings->General->Usage->Cellular Network Data; we really don't know what is going on and cannot point the finger at AT&T; perhaps it's iOS"+. Now for someone living in the UK you're one unusual specimen and your postings are quite unusual for someone living in a country where AT&T doesn't operate.

Would you two PLEASE stop with the ad-hominem attacks, conspiracy theories, and other drivel? This discussion is meant to talk about the problem many of us are seeing with incorrect billing, and ways we individuals can solve the problem (if any).

We all know that some big organization - AT&T, Apple, or the FCC - is going to eventually get to the bottom of it and assess the blame, and nothing any of us write here is likely to affect that process. So stop the mudslinging and troll-baiting, and please keep the S/N ratio high and the decorum friendly.

Thank you.

I had this issue. I have only had my Iphone for 1 month and I saw an overnight data transfer of 232M, and it does look like they will charge me for it. I read through a few message boards about the issue and followed the directions on opting out of sharing info w/Apple. That fixed the problem so far.

Hope this helps someone.