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Q: Unknown data usage early morning
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Nov 5, 2010 7:36 AMby Lawrence T.,Ancient_One wrote:
Lawrence, I think you might have missed the point I was trying to make. I for one do not believe that there is anything going on either with the phone or the carriers. Regardless of the outcome, very few are going to believe what Apple, AT&T or any other large corporation or the government says. I think the real issue here is that as users we do not fully understand what things take place as long as the appliance is on. This is probably true for most electronic devices today that never really are turned off unless you disconnect them from their respective power supply.
I got your point, and I was making the point that all you have to back your statement of "everything's fine" up are two anecdotal reports and flimsy examples of why your phone might be using data "always". Even if your examples (of checking for updates and time) were true, neither of these consume even a MB of data per day.
There have been people who have had the iPhone data counter report significantly less data used than AT&T's billing system. At this point, we all have to agree that one of them must be wrong. Its probably true that these are the minority of users - but these users are still getting ripped off.
For the rest of us, its true that most users don't fully understand what goes on in the device. Having said that, the onus is at least partially on manufacturers and service providers to make sure that usage and billing is as intuitive as possible. If the phone reports using some amount of data, you should be billed for that amount. Also, the amount of data your phone uses should not be orders of magnitude larger than what a reasonable person would expect. -
Nov 5, 2010 7:36 AMby chcn,BackPacker57 wrote:
The iPhone data charges for over billing of unknown data usage is occurring in the USA, Canada, UK and wherever you may be with a Norwegian Carrier---
Again, I think we need to be careful to separate the issues. The latest Canadian reporting in this thread about his experience with an iPhone on Rogers was seeing unexplained data usage on his phone's counter, which the carrier agreed with. This may be different from what many are talking about in the US, which is data usage the phone doesn't register but which appears on the bill.
Now, I suspect that many of the reported US cases are actually more like the Canadian case, in that the phone may actually be in some kind of loop transferring a bunch of data for reasons not known to the user, and because of the vagaries of the billing system it doesn't show up until later and in a way that makes it difficult for people to trace to actual usage. But some reporters here seem very confident that even over a sustained period of time the billed amount is nothing like the amount reported by the phone counter. If that’s true, then it may be a billing problem, and it may be a different problem than that described in some of the international reports. (Or it could be a problem with a common billing system component shared by many carriers, as Lawrence reminded us today.) -
Nov 5, 2010 7:44 AMby Peter A.,Since AT&T offers you the ability to look at past data usage (in order to determine if 200 MB is enough) and you've never had more than 113 MB of data and more often was well less than a 100 MB and your usage habits have not changed, why would one month you suddenly surpass 200 MB? -
Nov 5, 2010 7:59 AMby chcn,I'm going to have to agree with Lawrence T. here. In our household we use our iPhones for not only phone calls but email, Facebook, Skype, web surfing, videos, games, buying music from iTunes, the works. But the data usage is transparent and explainable for the most part. Contrary to the lame explanations given by some AT&T reps, the phone does not go out and download app updates or OS updates without the user expressely okaying it first. Other little things like voicemail notifications or time syncing* (even if either of those did use billable network data, neither of which does), transfer only small amounts of data. (*On the time syncing thing, it is correct that the iPhone syncs time from the GSM system, and so uses no billable data, but even if you have installed an NTP client, which I have done, a check of four different time servers uses about 15KB. So 1MB would be 68 checks. That is way more checks than would usually be done in a day.)
So, for those (few?) people who seem to be downloading hundreds of MB of data with no explanation, someting is definitely wrong, and telling them that a smart phone is just like that is not the answer. -
Nov 5, 2010 8:04 AMby chcn,Agreed that sounds like a problem, but of course it could be explained by a chance in habits. I never used to go above 200 or so until this month when I decided to watch the news on the bus a couple of days in a row. That was 100MB each time, which I knew it would be, because that's how big the podcast file is when I download it via iTunes at home.
Anyway, in your case it sounds like you're not aware of any changes in your usage, so it might be something else.
My question for you, given what I've been getting at with my last couple of posts, is whether the increased, unexplained usage showed up on the phone counter too or just your bill? -
Nov 5, 2010 8:27 AMby Ancient_One,Lawrence, we could agree on some points and disagree on others till the cows come home. The issue of the phone reporting differently than the carrier is normal. How long does it take for roaming charges to show up? If you use plastic overseas, how long until the usage adjusted for currency adjustments take to show up. The two systems, phone and carrier will never be the same. Yes, the manufacturer and the carrier should give the user some idea of what is going on, we will get another disclaimer that really doesn't clear up anything. But is does give the lawyers some work . Relax and enjoy the phone and what it can do for you.
Steve H -
Nov 5, 2010 8:35 AMby chcn,It will be intersting to see what you find.
Just a note in case it's not obvious: To ensure you get the closest match possible, make sure you reset your counter at the right time. For example, the date on my invoices is the 17th of each month, but when I look at the detail on the invoices, they always include usage from the 18th through the 17th of each month, so I reset my counter at the end of the 17th of each month (or when I first wake up on the 18th). You're likely to get an even better match if you make sure there is no 3G data usage for at least four hours at that time (give the billing system time to catch up). -
Nov 5, 2010 8:37 AMby Lawrence T.,Ancient_One wrote:
Lawrence, we could agree on some points and disagree on others till the cows come home. The issue of the phone reporting differently than the carrier is normal. How long does it take for roaming charges to show up? If you use plastic overseas, how long until the usage adjusted for currency adjustments take to show up. The two systems, phone and carrier will never be the same. Yes, the manufacturer and the carrier should give the user some idea of what is going on, we will get another disclaimer that really doesn't clear up anything. But is does give the lawyers some work . Relax and enjoy the phone and what it can do for you.
This has nothing to do with agreeing on some points and disagreeing on others. You are making claims that have no logical basis and claiming that everyone who is reporting a problem just doesn't understand how their phone works.
Roaming usage is a red herring - not all users who have been reporting billing discrepancies roam. It is normal for the phone to report slightly different figures than the carrier for various reasons such as rounding and delayed reporting. However, it is not normal for the bill to be off by an order of magnitude from whatever the phone reports. -
Nov 5, 2010 8:48 AMby BulaRae,Ancient_One wrote:
Lawrence, we could agree on some points and disagree on others till the cows come home. The issue of the phone reporting differently than the carrier is normal. How long does it take for roaming charges to show up? If you use plastic overseas, how long until the usage adjusted for currency adjustments take to show up. The two systems, phone and carrier will never be the same. Yes, the manufacturer and the carrier should give the user some idea of what is going on, we will get another disclaimer that really doesn't clear up anything. But is does give the lawyers some work . Relax and enjoy the phone and what it can do for you.
Steve H
Are you out of your bloody mind? Why on earth would you feel the need to troll a thread like this to arbitrarily refute the legitimate issues so many dozens of people are reporting.
Telling people like myself who had to battle against $3,000 overages to "relax and enjoy the phone and what it can do for" me is so disgusting I don't even know what to say. Get a life somewhere other than here. -
Nov 5, 2010 8:48 AMby lightsp33d,Ancient_One wrote:
Lawrence, I think you might have missed the point I was trying to make.
Please do educate us oh Ancient One! The world awaits your wisdom.I for one do not believe that there is anything going on either with the phone or the carriers.
Thank you for sharing your beliefs. Unfortunately people see it the other way--especially when it translates to money.Regardless of the outcome, very few are going to believe what Apple, AT&T or any other large corporation or the government says.
Really? Which few are those oh Ancient One? Did you interview everyone?I think the real issue here is that as users we do not fully understand what things take place as long as the appliance is on.
Oh, do tell us... Oh wait, you're telling us we do not fully understand these magical "things" that +"take place as long as the appliance is on"+. Oh Ancient one, you've bestowed your wisdom on us once again. For this we're thankful to you.This is probably true for most electronic devices today that never really are turned off unless you disconnect them from their respective power supply.
Ah, yes, oh Ancient One. You speak of the toaster and the microwave oven and also of the refrigerator. Indeed oh Ancient One, we'll never know the magical "things" that take place inside those appliances.
Your wisdom, oh Ancient One, has surpassed our expectations. Lead us, oh Ancient One to understanding and enlightenment. -
Nov 5, 2010 9:03 AMby lightsp33d,Ancient_One wrote:
Lawrence, we could agree on some points and disagree on others till the cows come home.
How could that be possible oh Ancient One--we believed in your wisdom as a universal truth. Are you telling us some people don't share the master's wisdom? Is it the Ancient One's will to now educate us on cows?The issue of the phone reporting differently than the carrier is normal.
Oh, yes, Ancient One. As is normal for people to overpay their cellular network data usage. Your wisdom blinds our enemies oh great one.How long does it take for roaming charges to show up? If you use plastic overseas, how long until the usage adjusted for currency adjustments take to show up.
Oh, great leader--thank you for proving this to us and explaining this to us in a way we can understand. Your explanations are most feared by our enemies.The two systems, phone and carrier will never be the same.
Ah, thank you oh Ancient One for this prophecy of wisdom and peace. We'll cherish it forever.Yes, the manufacturer and the carrier should give the user some idea of what is going on, we will get another disclaimer that really doesn't clear up anything. But is does give the lawyers some work .
Oh Ancient One--you've come through for us, those who seek your wisdom. Your prophecy has revived those who follow and believe in you.Relax and enjoy the phone and what it can do for you.
The Ancient One's lead is a gift from above.Steve H
Surely, the Ancient One cannot be named with any earthly name. -
Nov 5, 2010 9:43 AMby Euphemism,Steve - I would love to "relax and enjoy the phone". Trust me, I expected to do this and am very distressed that I can't.
My husband's phone says that he's used approx 100 megabytes of data this month (he reset it on the day our billing cycle started). AT&T says he's used approx 300 megabytes. AT&T says he used 150 megabytes of data on a day when he didn't even use any apps on the phone at all. Not to mention he doesn't use email on his phone or any kind of streaming services that would use up this amount of data. So, should we just relax, not use our phones, and let it run up a huge bill all in its own?? -
Nov 5, 2010 10:23 AMby BackPacker57,"be careful?"
The culpability of the carriers and APPLE can be potentially deep and far cutting because they cannot substantiate what the customers are being billed is the issue and until either one of them or their partners identifies the problem(s) I don't see the problem(s) going away.
The purpose of a billing system is accountability and without it you have chaos. Pretty much the same here within this thread as described by numerous users. As I mentioned before there are questions of security, integrity and accountability and users here are unlikely to dissect all of it since they don't have access to the proprietary sides of APPLE and the carriers or third parties.
Course of action is for posters to continue logging what they find/discover and for those in the US they can file online complaints with the FCC: http://esupport.fcc.gov/complaints.htm and for those outside the US they may have to fend for themselves or find the appropriate regulating body within their country.
Message was edited by: BackPacker57
