Currently Being ModeratedOct 24, 2012 9:06 AM (in response to Tobori)
Just wanted to know if everyone heard the announcement today.
Not only did they come out with the "mini" they also came out with an iPad "4th Generation"!!!! Anyone that went from iPad One to 3rd Generation got ripped off TWICE when they bought their second iPad. But at least our first iPads lasted 2-1/2 years!!! The people who bought the 3rd generation iPads got ripped off even worse. Their BRAND NEW iPads lasted, what, 6 months?!!!!!
SHAME ON APPLE!!!!!!
Currently Being ModeratedOct 24, 2012 9:41 PM (in response to Joachim Hettich)
Joachim, what you say makes no sense. It is obvious that the ipad 1 is very limited by its RAM capacity. But that is no reson for an app to crash all the time. A good program will refuse to do what is requested when memory is not enough. Silently crashing a-la Safari is just a sign of sloppy programming, either at the app or os level.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 25, 2012 10:35 AM (in response to Tinchote)
Apple finally provided me with a solution. I just received my 2nd refurbished Ipad 1. It is loaded with IOS4. I had taken the extra year service plan and with the 90 day warranty on the first refurbished Ipad and I was able to get a second. I am getting my apps back one at a time. I miss messaging as that is how I communicate with my daughter in Costa Rico, but I can still message on my IMac, although not as easily.
Also, I miss tabs in Safari.
It has only been a couple of hours, BUT NO SAFARI CRASHES!
Currently Being ModeratedOct 26, 2012 12:46 AM (in response to larfl1)
I too received a 2nd refurbished iPad 1 (64GB with 3G) with IOS4. Within days it crashed in Safari and I HAD NOT even installed any other apps. I did not get the 90 warranty on the 1st refurbished unit. It was all covered under Apple-Care which has now expired.
I am going to seriously look at the new Windows tablet when it comes even though I am not a fan of Microsoft.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 26, 2012 3:15 AM (in response to jimsimp3)
Good luck with Windows, I have had a PC with nearly every version ever made since 1987. Recently each new version has seemed to be just a successive shuffle of menu layouts to confuse established users. On each occasion within 6 months the system would run slow. Browsers of every description do in fact crash out when memory gets soaked, there's some pretty poor website Apps out there. Two years ago I had a new premium brand laptop with Windows 7. From new the screen driver was and after updates remained flaky. Often more than weekly I'd be throwing Java, Flash and AV updates onto it plus of course the MS regular patches. Guess what, within 6months it was running like a dog , fit for the bin, yet another £1,000 down the toilet! The key issue is what I used it for was mainly complex Word docs, a bit of medium level Excel, loads of Mail and web browsing. Anyway totally peed off with it, I bought iPad 1 the day it was launched. After 2.5 years it still works well enough, yes I went through the worst Safari crash issues and maybe still get it every other day but would I consider going back to a 25 year path of abject proven failure, er NO! Now with Airprint , Pages and Numbers I can do pretty much most of what I used to do with Windows. Pages isn't quite as good as Word (for large docs) but good enough for most personal use, but then for complex docs maybe Adobe is now the way forward. A year ago I also bought an iMAC, recently put the latest OS on it and haven't experienced any performance degradation. At about £1200 the iMAC is simply the best computer I have ever had since grey IBM PC imports started coming in nearly 30 years ago, this compares for example to a Wintel 386 system I paid over £1700 in 1994 when I earned half the money. I have in fact purchased 6 domestic Wintel systems since 1985 costing something like £10,000 plus at least 12 different machines in the workplace since 1982, costing over £25,000 for hardware and around £12,000 in mindless software upgrades.
My recent android phone from the main competitor (I thought iPhone too expensive to just simply phone and text) is not considered by me to be exactly top quality; I could not even delete things at first without a 3rd part utility and some of the menu routes are awfully weird and illogically placed to learn.
Bottom line is that no technology from any vendor is or ever will be perfect, it's only as god as the programmers they employ. My experience over nearly 3 years suggests that Apple has become (despite a few glitches) currently the quality leader. Prior to buying the iMAC I had also played with Ubuntu, but wasn't convinced about the integrity and security of some of the freeware Office type products out there. So 2.5 years on IPAD1 isn't going into the bin and when I buy a new tablet in maybe 18months will probably eventually simply replace my stereo system. In 2.5 years of Apple usage I haven't made a single support call, in the office Windows system (admittedly more complex with 16 x servers etc) I would have been talking to desktop support at least every 6 weeks.
I used to sell IT to the corporate world and know only very well that the exorbitant cost of maintaining the incumbent vendors existing desktop estate hasn't really improved since Windows 3.11 became endemic. Plus they then pay "the tax" of keeping the software estate up to date. Apart from a few gossip type web apps (which have no interest to me at all) the way users in that environment work and the type of apps they use (putting the web aside) hasn't really changed for nearly 25 years.
Frankly MS now seem to be a bit like mighty IBM was with OS2, too little too late, didn't read the runes of the times .....the rest is history! Mind you many people who bother to read this probably weren't even at school when that particular bit of IT history took place.
Finally, the day IT components stop crashing will be the day IT doesnt need to be changed and hence ceases to move forward! But its ALL at least 3,000% more reliable than in 1985.
I think most Apple buyers are happy to pay a reasonable premium for quality but all IT eventually gets commoditised, Apple's challenge in the next two years will be responding to price competition. If others are good enough to simply do the job then Apple's market share will decline. To avoid this this they need to stay ahead in both quality and innovation, but then innovation may eventually have its limits.
Currently Being ModeratedOct 26, 2012 6:16 AM (in response to raymondfromwoking)
Great summary of the windows experience! I too have been an IT
software professional since the early 60's. Apple has always been progressive and has suffered with the rest of us. I'm not happy with the slow death forcast for my iPad1, but I'll continue to use it daily as my information source that replaces hardcopy newspapers, much TV, email,.....
I'll eventually replace it with another iPad (mini with retina some day?). My iPhone 5 does everything I need and integrates with all our other iOS devices via iCloud. I have Google Drive to integrate between my old Windows world (will definately be replaced with MACs) with Gdrive on all my Apple gear. Adios Windows...
I am also compensated by the price of my Apple stock, which I have been buying regularly since I paid $39 per share.
Is Apple perfect? No. Do they purposely sell future obsolescence in their products to drive future demand? Yes...Which company doesn't? Is competition good for Apple and its users? Definitely! Will I still live in the middle of Apple technology? You bet!!!
Currently Being ModeratedNov 3, 2012 12:28 PM (in response to jimsimp3)
I've been in the midst of this exact problem with Apple Technical Support. This has been an ongoing problem for over 6 months. My observations and recommendations are below for those experiencing this problem:
If you're positive you have this problem, then scroll down to 'Recommendations'
Observations on 1st Generation iPad
1. As noted in several messages, the issue is an out-of-memory condition that results in a "black-screen" or crash that returns you to the home screen
2. The issue is easily reproducible by browsing to any web site that has a large number of graphics, photos, videos, etc. (which is about 1 out of every 5 you visit these days) and scrolling down to load the content, pinching-and-zooming the content and/or clicking on a particular photo or video to take it full-screen
3. This was NOT observed until the last upgrade to iOS (5.1.1) which enabled iCloud and several of the Spotlight Search features. It happened infrequently on iOS 5, and was never observed on iOS 4.
4. Erasing your iPad and returning it to the base configuration most likely WILL NOT resolve this issue. Erasing and restoring it from iTunes or iCloud backup won't work either. This is a memory constraint and application memory management problem.
5. You can confirm the above by connecting your iPad to iTunes and reviewing the crash logs. These will reside in one of three locations depending on your operating system:
a) OSX - /Library/Logs/CrashReporter/MobileDevice/<YourDeviceName>
b) Win7/Vista - C:\Users\<YourUserName>\AppData\Roaming\Applecomputer\Logs\CrashReporter/Mobile Device/<YourDeviceName>
c) WinXP - C:\Documents and Settings\<YourUserName>\Application Data\Apple computer\Logs\CrashReporter/<YourDeviceName>
On OSX you will see files with .crash and .xml extensions. In Windows, you will see .crash, and .log files. Look for files that have names showing 'LowMemory' in the title. You will probably also see files from 'MobileSafari' and 'MobileMail' as the out-of-memory condition will also crash the apps prior to blacking-out.
Here is an excerpt from one as an example:
Incident Identifier: 8371919F-E50E-4598-A354-A869D0E26A6F
CrashReporter Key: 7f275b3255a34f50735843bb607f213607a9d5e7
Hardware Model: iPad1,1
OS Version: iPhone OS 5.1.1 (9B206)
Kernel Version: Darwin Kernel Version 11.0.0: Sun Apr 8 21:51:26 PDT 2012; root:xnu-1878.11.10~1/RELEASE_ARM_S5L8930X
Date: 2012-09-17 17:17:38 -0700
Time since snapshot: 79 ms
Free pages: 448
Active pages: 1591
Inactive pages: 996
Throttled pages: 40397
Purgeable pages: 0
Wired pages: 19594
Largest process: MobileSafari
Name UUID Count resident pages
securityd <1a3f5034fb623ac896bfd78f6c11ea3f> 188
networkd <80ba40030462385085b5b7e47601d48d> 174
MobileSafari <20dbadfe9b1133d6b6770d43e6413d8a> 19678 (active)
MobileMail <eed7992f4c1d3050a7fb5d04f1534030> 9505 (jettisoned)
notifyd <f6a9aa19d33c3962aad3a77571017958> 157
If possible, grab all of these files and place them into a ZIP file and keep them in a separate directory so they don't get deleted. This is the information that Apple Support/Engineering will ask you for, though I'm fairly certain that they know about this issue and are deciding what (if anything) they want to do about it.
Summary & Recommendations:
As pointed-out earlier and in many other comments in this thread, the issue is an out-of-memory condition. This is most prevalent on the iPad First Generation; which only has 256MB of internal application memory. Don't confuse this with the amount of available flash storage on your iPad (16GB, 32GB, 64GB), this is internal memory that iOS uses. The iPad 2 doubled this memory to 512MB and the New iPad & iPad Mini further doubled to 1024MB, but even with that extra memory, this issue can still occur in the right conditions.
This issue is NOT specific to Safari. You will see the same results on alternate browsers like Chrome, Penguin and Safari. You can see this same type of failure using the eMail application if there are attachments with pictures, videos, etc. in the emails.
a) The Apple Geniuses are great, but they won't be particularly helpful on this issue. They are told to stay within the guidelines and best practices of Apple Support which is usually: erase your system and reload iOS. While this solution works for some things, it won't really help with this issue. HOWEVER, if you can get one of them to return the iPad to iOS4 or iOS 5, that will help a lot with this issue - DO NOT do the update to iOS 5.1.x or you will end-up back where you started.
b) If you need to run iOS 5.1.x, you can help to reduce (but not eliminate) the crashes by turning OFF iCloud and everything under Spotlight Search.
b) If you still have your device covered under an AppleCare Plan, open a ticket with them immediately and document the issue - indicate early-on that you want a replacement unit.
c) If you don't have an AppleCare Plan, you need to call Apple Corporate (+1 408-996-1010) and ask to speak to Customer Relations -- they are the only group that can work with out-of-warranty / out-of-support products. In fact, even with an AppleCare warranty you will probably need to end-up talking to Customer Relations
d) Be sure to convey the lack of usability of the iPad. You can show specific evidence of this through the crash logs (step #5 above) which will indicate just how many times your iPad has crashed with this problem. In my specific case, there were over 50 crash files -- there would have been more had I not erased the unit several times.
e) Work through the process. Yes, you are frustrated, and you don't want to have to explain this for the 100th time, and you know that erasing the unit won't fix this ,etc. etc. but the company requires that you work through the established processes in order to document the failures and escalate up the chain of command. (next step)
f) Escalate! If you still have access to AppleCare or Support, use them. Start a case and then when the rep tells you you need to erase and reload the unit, tell them you want to escalate to a supervisor. If you're at a supervisor, ask to escalate to Customer Relations.
An alternate method of reaching Customer Relations is to write a letter -- NOT an email, or a Fax, an old-fashioned letter with a stamp and everything. Document your issue, your dissatisfaction with the product and the company and ask that someone from Customer Relations contact you. Mail that letter to:
Consumer Customer Relations
1 Infinite Loop
Cupertino, California, USA
ONCE YOU REACH CUSTOMER RELATIONS:
Remember, most of the customer relations folks are not technical. They won't understand all the technical crap you've gone through, BUT they will benefit greatly from a well-document support ticket (see above).
Be sure to point-out repeatedly how very un-Apple-like this problem is, express that you've been a long-time supporter and purchaser of Apple products and that this issue is having you consider alternate products like Android and Windows Surface, etc. Also state that you'd like to have them carbon-copy and escalate the issue to the PRODUCT MARKETING MANAGERS for the iPad and iOS.
Unlike the Apple Store (who can only offer you repair or like-for-like unit replacement), Customer Relations has some flexibility to work outside the standard support procedures.
Customer Relations will likely offer to replace the unit for you. You should stress to them that this most likely WILL NOT fix the problem, and that you'd rather return the unit to Apple for credit towards a different product.
In my particular case, they initially required me to do a unit replacement (even though I told them it would not fix it and would cost Apple unnecessary dollars) before acknowledging the larger problem and asking what I wanted Apple to do.
I asked them to replace my iPad First Generation with an iPad Mini. They refused. (Hey, I had to ask) We went back and forth on what would make me happy, but ultimately I asked for a gift card from Apple in the amount of fair market value for the iPad (your value will vary depending on the model, but the longer you wait, the less it will be worth of course. For me, the fair market value established was $250. I only believe this was agreed to because I have a long product purchase history with Apple, and they'd rather see me stay a happy consumer than a noisy complainer about their poor product.
Anyway, the gift card allows ME to decide what technology I'm going to purchase, whether or not it is an iPad product remains to be seen.
Some will argue that this makes no sense and that I should just drop Apple altogether, but my counter to that is that every iPod, MacBook, iPhone and monitor I've purchased have worked great, and that the iPad is the first real product of frustration. If it was my ONLY purchase, I would probably be more inclined to go to an alternate platform. Other will argue that I could have simply put the unit up on eBay, sold it and bought something else. While that is true, the above process and documentation through Customer Relations ultimately builds a larger case with Apple Support and Engineering that this issue needs to be fixed. You can imagine that Apple doesn't want to start doing a large number of these "customer satisfaction product refunds", so as soon as someone in management takes notice that dollars are going OUT of Apple in support of this, someone in the iOS Engineering team will be brought-in to fix the issue, especially if it is affecting the newer iPad platforms.
I wish you luck with your resolution - I will keep you posted on my final decisions and closure with Customer Relations.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 17, 2012 4:40 AM (in response to Sam Katz1)
For one I can't even participate by responding to you in this forum in Safari on Ipad 2. I have to use Chrome instead! So there is something fundamentally wrong with Safari in the latest IOS 6.0.1 release. I wish that Apple would a) acknowledge the problem b) change its mechanism of reporting and fixing issues without requiring time consuming activities, including wandering the web to discover what's the real state of an issue, or spending time in long visits and phone calls.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 17, 2012 8:55 AM (in response to Rob Bruen)
The new Microsoft Surface tablet appears to be a "solution" to this issue. I will wait to hear the user reviews and if favorable ............ problem solved !
I am on my 3rd iPad I and still having the same issue. I just wish Apple would admit there is a hardware/OS issue and offer a trade-in program. The folks at the Apple Store and also their customer support apparently are instructed not to acknowlwdge the on-going problem. They knowing have you waste time in giving remedies and solutions that will not work.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 20, 2012 3:29 AM (in response to Rob Bruen)
Folks this is plain frustration. A product no fit for use. I use th first gen iPad, and being a tblet, primary purpose is for browsing, emailing an reading ebooks. If this keeps crashing this frequently, I do no want to buy another Apple product. With the older OS i was just good.
Good luck Apple!
Lost a customer, who wanted to buy mini....
Currently Being ModeratedNov 20, 2012 5:12 AM (in response to Sundarun)
I too am on my 3rd new Ipad as the crashes kept happening and despite spending 2 hours yesterday showing the blue shirt brigade in the store the problem - they would not listen and now I understand why...they are robots who have no idea reagrding IT or anything remotely associated with IT !! I have now given up and will not waste my time writing a letter to some faceless person in Cupertino or wherever in the vain hope of getting a resolution. I could go on and on but whats the use....Kindle Fire here I come.
Currently Being ModeratedNov 20, 2012 12:18 PM (in response to jimsimp3)
Microsoft's hybrid tablet/PC, the Surface, has been greeted with mixed reviews at best and has its own serious limitations. If you think it's a better tablet solution than current generation iPads, you're in for a rude awakening. The first reviews were accepting and polite, but after actually working with the Surface RT for a few weeks, recent reviews are devastating.
Technology blogger John Gruber has observed that by trying to add touch to the PC, Microsoft really is just trying tp preserve it's cash cow rather than producing a touch interface that is best for customers. Gruber wrote:
"...But why put the touch/tablet UI on all PCs? A touch-optimized UI makes no more sense for a non-touch desktop than a desktop UI makes for a tablet. Apple has it right: a touch UI for touch devices, a pointer UI for pointer (trackpad, mouse) devices. Windows 8 strikes me as driven by dogma — 'one Windows, everywhere'..."
Writing for Slate, Farhad Manjoo attempted to answer the question "Why is Surface so bad"? Here's just one of a litany of issues he cited:
"...The first problem is speed. Everything you do on the Surface takes more time than you expect. When you load an app, switch between apps, launch a Web page, go back to a previous Web page, check your email, and do pretty much anything else, you’ll find yourself waiting a half-second too long. This sounds like nothing, but when you compound that time time across every action on the Surface, the wasted half-seconds add up to an annoying trudge..."
And at TechCrunch, M.G. Siegler closed his lengthy and blistering review with these words:
"...Look, the Surface is not as awful as I’m making it sound. But in no way is it good. And for this price, in this market, it needs to be. And really, it needs to be great because Microsoft is once again playing catchup. I’m sure the Surface will improve over time — and I suspect the Surface with Windows 8 Pro will be a much more useable machine — but only because it has nowhere to go from here but up.
The problem is that the competition is constantly improving as well. In this price range, the iPad destroys the Surface. And then there are several tablets priced well below the Surface that are also a lot better and feature far more robust ecosystems.
So here I am, $650 lighter, hoping Microsoft can somehow improve this thing via several more daily software updates. I’m not holding my breath. Instead, I think it’s time for a robust drop test — right into the garbage can..."
At the time of its introduction, the iPad 1 was a terrific machine. Obviously, it really should have been designed with more RAM to have a longer useful lifespan, but it was adequate for the Web Apps and pre-HTML5 Web pages that were available in 2010. The real problem is that the iPad 1 was so succesful that it changed the nature of Apps and changed the Web, thereby sealing its own underpowered fate. Finally, it's only fair to note that many Apple customers still use first-generation iPads without the problems you've encountered.
For more information, see these mostly terrible Windows 8 and Surface reviews:
Currently Being ModeratedNov 20, 2012 2:57 PM (in response to geopix)
This is a bad joke from Apple, period. Ive downgraded my iPad 1 to iOS 4.3, to reduce the crashes (wasnt even usable anymore with iOS 5). On my iPad 3 i have to close the whole browser (using Chrome atm) if it gets under 100mb, otherwise i can expect a crash within 1-2mins. Close tabs wont help, i have to kill the whole browser to get back to about 700mb ram.
This and the fact that it gets harder and harder to JB a iOS device make these devices no more fun for me (and thats their only reason for existance), therefore ill probably go with Android next time i buy a tablet/phone.