Fonts problem (greek) with Microsoft fonts (e.g. Cambria, Calibri etc.)

No problems until Leopard. Enter Snow Leopard.

Now, if I type «Ό» (that is the capital Omikron, accented) in these fonts, all I get on the screen is the non-accented equivalent. Like this:

I type «Ά» and I get «Α»
I type «Έ» and I get «Ε»
I type «Ή» and I get «Η»
I type «Ί» and I get «Ι»
I type «Ό» and I get «Ο»
I type «Ύ» and I get «Υ»
I type «Ώ» and I get «Ω»

I also type «ΐ» and I get «Ϊ». That is, I type lower-case Iota accented with dialetics, and I get capital Iota with dialetics, no accent. Same for «ΰ» (Ypsilon)

If I select the text already entered and switch to, say, Arial, all the errors are corrected; I see the right characters.

Oh, and I've gone into Font Forge and checked the font tables for Arial and, say, Cambria. They have the same characters in the same squares on the grid.

None of this happened until Leopard, like I state above. It effectively means I cannot use the fonts from Microsoft (which, rather surprisingly for me anyway, I happen to like very much).

Any tips? Am I missing something?

Thanks, as always.

MBP 17" 2.4GHz, Mac OS X (10.6.3), iPhone 2G, TiBook 550MHz Gigabit Ethernet, PowerBook G4 17, B/W G3, Win2K, WinXP

Posted on Jun 29, 2010 5:43 AM

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Jun 29, 2010 6:36 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

PS I can duplicate the problem after all -- using either the normal or polytonic keyboard or character palette, sometimes it works right and sometimes it does not. Looks like a bug in the way the fonts are being read.

(Seems to work ok in Word Web App, if that is any help).
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Aug 29, 2010 3:20 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

Hi Alex (Γιά σου βρέ πατρίδα),

Whenever I need to type the capital omikron 'Ο' with an accent, like Ό, then, using Greek Polytonic as the input source, I first hit the semicolon key (immediately to the right of the L key) and then type the letter I want. It's how I have always done it.

Now, Tom Gewecke is a recognised and respected font guru here (Kurt Lang is another active user whose font knowledge is very much respected), so I very much listen whenever they offer font advice.

However, are you attempting to input the accent in a different way than what I normally do?

Da Vinci
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Aug 29, 2010 3:43 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

Hi Da Vinci (γεια σου βρε πατρίδα right back at you!)

That's exactly how I've always entered accented vowels. The problem appears in Snow Leopard and only for some fonts (notably, the ones from Microsoft) which, however, up until Leopard behaved fine.

On a related note: why does Gentium (from sil.org) produce Ä instead of the euro sign €? I compared Gentium with Arial using FontForge on X11; all seems identical (i.e. same characters in the same boxes).

I end up using inferior-looking fonts due to these issues.

Baffled...


PS I always listen to Tom and Kurt when they speak, too...
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Aug 29, 2010 6:09 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
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.... The problem appears in Snow Leopard and only for some fonts (notably, the ones from Microsoft) which, however, up until Leopard behaved fine.

The only thing that springs to mind Alex is the version of MS Office that you may be using. Additionally, have you checked to see if there are any updates available for your version of MS Office?

Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
On a related note: why does Gentium (from sil.org) produce Ä instead of the euro sign €? I compared Gentium with Arial using FontForge on X11; all seems identical (i.e. same characters in the same boxes).

I end up using inferior-looking fonts due to these issues.

Baffled...

Can't help you there Alex. Baffling, indeed.

Da Vinci
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Aug 29, 2010 6:33 AM in response to Da Vinci

I don't use MS Office. The issue occurs in every app; TextEdit, OpenOffice, FileMaker Pro etc. It's the packet of MS fonts available for free.

As regards the Gentium issue, I am now more bummed than before: I just re-downloaded the same version (1.02) of Gentium and copied the Gentium and GentiumAlt files in /Library/Fonts, deleting the old (but still, same version, like I said) Gentium.dfont and GentiumAlt.dfont files. Rebooted and all is fine.

Go figure.
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Aug 29, 2010 10:51 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
I don't use MS Office. The issue occurs in every app; TextEdit, OpenOffice, FileMaker Pro etc. It's the packet of MS fonts available for free.

Well, I'm sure Tom has already received email notification of further replies in this thread so, perhaps, he has further information since the last time. He has managed to re-create your symptoms; unfortunately, as yet, I have not.

Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
As regards the Gentium issue, I am now more bummed than before: I just re-downloaded the same version (1.02) of Gentium and copied the Gentium and GentiumAlt files in /Library/Fonts, deleting the old (but still, same version, like I said) Gentium.dfont and GentiumAlt.dfont files. Rebooted and all is fine.

Go figure.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y

Da Vinci
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Aug 29, 2010 11:07 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
@Da Vinci: you mean that you actually use Cambria, Calibri etc. on Snow Leopard and the Ά, Έ, Ό etc. show up properly? They don't become Α, Ε, Ο etc? On any app?

I don't use Cambria, Calibri etc at all. The only time I used them was after seeing this thread and just now, after reading your above reply. As yet, I have not experienced the symptoms and everything shows up exactly as expected.

But then, Tom Gewecke, in one of his replies to you where he managed to re-create the symptom, stated that "sometimes it works right and sometimes it does not." Perhaps, if I were to try again tomorrow, I will also experience the symptoms. 😉

Alex Zachopoulos wrote:
EDIT: What's with the Twilight Zone video?

Hehe... forgive me. It was my attempt at humour following your "Go figure" and "Baffled" statements with regards to the Gentium issue. 😉

Da Vinci
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Aug 29, 2010 11:15 AM in response to Alex Zachopoulos

Hello Alex,

When it comes to keyboard layouts, Unicode and input, Tom is the person on the AD. I don't even understand what he's talking about most of the time with this stuff. 🙂

Tom sees this as a bug, and I wouldn't doubt it. Along with everything else in Snow Leopard, the type engine was a complete from-scratch rewrite. Most of the bugs have been worked out of it already, but some less obvious ones remain.

Rather than using the typical feedback page, use the ADC links in Safari to send bug reports directly to Apple's engineers. Click on the "Web Sites" button on Safari's top bar (just under the URL) and choose Apple Developer site > ADC - Bug Reporting - Best Practices. Read through the way to properly send bug reports. Once you feel clear on that, then choose ADC - Bug Reporting. You do not need to be a developer to join. Sign up and you'll be able to enter a bug report.

It would be a good idea to provide the URL to this discussion as part of your submitted text.
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Fonts problem (greek) with Microsoft fonts (e.g. Cambria, Calibri etc.)

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