Issue with Proximity Sensor during calls - Continued.

mbassoc2003 wrote:
Repost, for the less ignorant out there....
Why don't you at least try to pull appart the post, Gofly. Let's see if you have a brain attached to your mouth....

OK, but you may well regret asking 🙂

mbassoc2003 wrote:

Mimo169 wrote:
EVERYONE I know who has an iPhone 4 admits to having the same issue yet...

That's funny, because most of the people in the press haven't got this issue. Infact one particular magazine went into print saying they'd heard of the issue but could not replicate it, or find anyyone who had experienced it or could demonstrate it to them.

You conveniently forget about Jason O'Grady - he's been a mac person before you were born.
Here's the url for you once again:
http://www.zdnet.com/blog/apple/fix-for-buggy-iphone-4-proximity-sensor-being-te sted-updated/7823?tag=mantle_skin;content

Let's not forget that open letter to Steve Jobs from David W. Martin of Cult of Mac at:
http://www.cultofmac.com/dear-steve-jobs-what-happened-to-quality-open-letter/54 224

David's Biog reads:
quote: 'David W. Martin has more than 20 years of experience in the industry as a programmer, systems and business analyst, author, and consultant. David has written for CNET's iPhoneatlas.com and currently writes for CultofMac.com and Maclife.com. He comes to Cult of Mac's website with deep knowledge and passion for the all things Apple.'

Yup, that's right, he was writing about Apple way back when your mother was changing your diapers

There are plenty more like that out there

As to your question, the evidence is that every single handset has the same issue, and that those users who experience it, experience it on every single handset. Some people have literally had half a dozen replacement phones, and also tested doezens of other people's handsets and experienced the issue on every single one of them.

The same goes for those who do not have the problem (the vast majority of people). The seem to not have the issue at all on any handset.

You base your assumnption on what FACTS exactly?

That would imply that the issue is a sensitivity in the sensor hardware, and that there is a difference in the way some users operate their phone that is actually causing the problem. They do something during calls that the vast majority of people do not do.

Rhm, what would imply what ??? - I see no logical inference and I defy anybody else to find a logical sequitur in your statement. Just because you choose to posit any old assumption and then draw an inference from it doesn't make it so. remember GIGO? it means garbage in, garbage out.

Now, many pages back, we explored the slewing of figures due to operator demographic. I suggested that maybe the problem was so limited because the vast majority of users are social users, buying the iPhone as a statement of lifestyle and values, and that they tended to operate their phones in a manner that meant call time did not factor in the overwhelming amount of time they interacted with their phones. They were infact media users more than phone callers.

That's a nice suggestion, possibly even true, but without supporting empirical data, it's just so much confetti.

Not business people whith long and frequent converstaions to have.

This is not a sentence

Not needing to interact with a pad of paper and a pen at the same time as having a conversation on the phone. Whatever.

Neither are these sentences

The point is, the hardware seems to be consistent in both quality and operation, and the variable between those who do and those who do not have the problem seems to be the individual user.

That's a nice suggestion, possibly even true, but without supporting empirical data, it's just so much confetti.

This is an issue that Apple cannot fail to have reached, and probably reached it many weeks ago. The only issue is whether they then provide these individuals with a software override to allow them to manually lock the screen, or continue with the iOS in its current development course.

ehm, after consideration of the facts, people and companies reach conclusions not issues

That is a matter for them, but this constant "when will the bug be fixed" is a fantasy, and the quicker the people who can't operate their phones to their satisfaction wake up to this fact, the more pleasant their lives will be.

Whp are the group of peaople you refer to as 'them' pray tell? Apple? And please do explain how people can wake up to a the fact of a fantasy - sounds like you mixed your metaphors.

wanna try again?

Is there any fix upcoming soon? This proximity sensor is driving me up the wall.

Brabus1 wrote:
Is there any fix upcoming soon? This proximity sensor is driving me up the wall.

You and me both...and MANY other people besides

I find it quite odd when I see people post statements about how they've returned multiple IP4's because of the problem expecting a different outcome. Reminds me of something....who knows what it is though? If you have a problem with your IP4, return the thing and GET SOMETHING ELSE. I'm no Apple fanboy at all, but I still don't understand why people complain as much as they do about the company and how 'horrible' they are. My wife just bought the Sony Xperia running Android 1.6 (yuck), and I must say they are also very nice as well even running 1.6. The bottom line is everything will have it's +'s and -'s so just find the one you like. For goodness sakes quit returning something 5 times and getting another that is just insane.

Rupert321 wrote:
If you cradle the phone using your shoulder it lights up too. If you happen to be using your hands to do something other than hold the phone it is quite obvious to understand how your cheek could push a button when being held this way. Even if you conscientious (as I now am) that your face must be pushed against the sensor, it still turns on occasionally if a small gap is present while your are moving around.

I can't even believe I'm having this conversation though, I seriously think there may be something wrong with you. You asked for evidence, it was provided in an overwhelming number and you still want to pretend. Are you truly that bull headed? The denial you go through is nothing short of astonishing.

Seriously. I concede that there is an issue that users are exoperiencing using the phone. What I said was, the evidence is that people who have to problem, have the problem with every phone they use. Those who don't, don't. The variable in the whole equation is the user.

I do not doubt that users fitting certain demographics experience the problem, and that those users do not fall into the main mass user market. If you'd read my post, and those bandied about between Michael and myself when we were at eachother's throats, you's see exactly where I'm coming from.

The point is, it may be a design flaw not to take onboard the whole user demographic of the phone during testing, but it did not happen. There are not faulty and non-faulty phones. Otherwise, how would Apple know to give only faulty phones to customers who retruned their phones reporting issues, and to give good phones to everyone else? How would Apple know to target specific customer types with faulty handsets, and leave the rest of us alone?

The fault is a design issue. I can see how it was missed in testing. But the variable is not the phone or the software. The variable is the user. That is the only way you can explain the data being provided on the threads and the return patern to stores.

Apple know this already. They chose not to comment as is always the case. The only question is what the user who has the problem is going to do to extractate themselves from their situation. Do you not see that?

Ah, but it can be complicated.

If it is the OS, why didn't it happen to many more people on the 3G? Oh, I can think of reasons, but none are absolute (for example, it could be a problem for people with a specific app).

Similar to why do we hear after every new upgrade from some people saying it bricked their phone - yet they are always a tiny group?

I'm not clear on what "fix" you are referring to with the 3G because I had it from when it first came out and did every upgrade - never had the problem, though I'm aware some people said they did. But nothing like we've seen with so many people with multiple phones on the new phone.

If it was just my phone, yeah, it wouldn't mean much. But we aren't seeing anything close to the examples on the 3G as we do with this phone.

I think it is still a mystery, with conflicting evidence. Apple may know for sure, but they aren't clarifying. Eventually we'll know when they make an serious upgrade.

Brabus1 wrote:
Is there any fix upcoming soon? This proximity sensor is driving me up the wall.

No there is not.
You can doubt it if you like. Or you can come back and ask the same question in a month. The answer will be the same.
No. There is no fix coming.
The very best you will get is a software override to manually disable the screen. But then a lot of people pointed that out a month ago. And they have been proven to be correct thus far.

Ok I had to comment on your asinine statement. I have the prox sensor issue and the antenna issue as well. According to you the prox sensor issue is my fault. I'm extremely flabbergasted that you said something like this because you act as though you know what you're talking about but your words say otherwise. I owned the original 3G, got it the day it came out. There was not a single problem with that phone other than being slow as midnight. So I guess when I bought the IP4 'I' somehow changed and it wasn't the phone or software. I suppose I need to go see a doctor or someone that can help me hold my phone correctly and/or prevent myself from causing the proximity sensor to go funny. Seriously mbassoc2003, please stfu.

Many have reported similar success as yours - unfortunately, most of them report that it a temporary fix.

Don't know if it is coincidence or what. It is one of the things that makes it seem to be software related, but if so, why does it go bad so often again? One of the mysteries of life so far.

Alright bet! I'll return my iPhone, if Apple provides a refund for all the apps that I've purchased as an iPhone user since day one 🙂

Otherwise, no I've already invested too much in ITunes music, movies, and apps to abandon Apple cuz a flaw. Frustrating to no end, yes. But I'm going to live with it fix or no fix.

Will I buy the next iPhone they release? Heck yeah!

@Goflying.... You cannot gather empirical evidence without access to Apple's data, and we both know it. That means that, by your reasoning, everything you and I both write is baseless supposition.

The point is, based on the evidence presented here and other forums from people who have this issue and have gone through multiple handsets, and those who do not, there is evidence that those who do have the issue experience the problem with every single handset they come into contact with, and those who do not have the problem do not experience the problem with other people's handsets.

Mine is perfectly fine. Yours may not be. But I'd be willing to bet that if we swapped handsets, I'd not have the problem with yours, but all of a sudden mine would have the proximity sensor issue.

If that were so, the only variables would be us users, our usage patterns, the environment we used our phones in, whether or not we modified our phones with screen protectors or cases, and how we held the phones when we made calls.

Now, environmental factors do not seem to play their part in any decernable way. The issue is not specific to any particular level of reletive ambient light. All the other factors are controlled wholely by the user and not Apple.

Now, you can blame Apple for not taking these factors into consideration, but it would be much more sensible to find out what the overwhelming majority of users who do not have a problem are doing differently from those who are having an issue.

Blind hatred of Apple for not being able to tell you what you're doing wrong, or not building in a suitabley wide scope of usage pattern into their testing regime is getting you nowhere. This is not an issue Apple are going to fix. It's bad economics to redesign the hardware, and I'd be willing to bet the last six weeks of beta testing has resulted in no decernable difference for those who have the problem and those who do not.

That also seems to be what is being reported by the beta testers.

You can contine to complain, but you are getting nowhere. Granted, you are not being given a clear picture of the datat that Apple possess, but you are also not viewing the evidence being presented by your fellow posters who find themselves in the same situation. Nor are you able to dstand back and view the situation from Apple Corporate's point of view. Do not try to attribute feeling or emotion or moral value to a corporate body. It will only act in a politically expedient manner and in it's own best interest.

To goflying too.

Sorry you two missed the memo, but we all just saw four quick posts that accomplished nothing and, I suspect, as I read on I'll find you both still going back and forth.

Or, just maybe, you could both just drop the fight at this point.

Euphoria64 wrote:
Ok I had to comment on your asinine statement. I have the prox sensor issue and the antenna issue as well. According to you the prox sensor issue is my fault. I'm extremely flabbergasted that you said something like this because you act as though you know what you're talking about but your words say otherwise. I owned the original 3G, got it the day it came out. There was not a single problem with that phone other than being slow as midnight. So I guess when I bought the IP4 'I' somehow changed and it wasn't the phone or software. I suppose I need to go see a doctor or someone that can help me hold my phone correctly and/or prevent myself from causing the proximity sensor to go funny. Seriously mbassoc2003, please stfu.

I too have had the iP since the very first.
No. You missed the point completely.

Every phone has the same issues. Every single one of them. They are all built the same. Each issue consists of a hardware component, a software element that interprets what the hardware component reports, and a whole shedload of user and environmental factors that affect the data collected by the hardware for the software to interpret.

Surely that is a commin ground we can all agree upon?

Now, the evidence presented on the forum, and in various other threads both here and on other forums, is that those poeple who experience the problem experience the problem on many handsets. Some of the more dogged members who have real issues have had five or six phones, and have borrowed and tested many many more, and they will tell you that all the phones have the same problem.

That tells us that the hardware is not a variable but a constant. If you have the problem, you will have the problem with every single handset you use.

The only remaining variables are the software that interprets the data (the iOS), and the actual data it collects from the sensors.

Not, the evidence presented here, and from the reports already posted about the three tested betas of the new iOS indicates that they have not managed to single out a software variable that alters the behaviour to the end users (testers). Also, those people who do not have the problem don't seem to have had the problem with any of the previous versions of the iOS, and those who have had the problem, have had the problem with every single bersion of the iOS that they've used.

Therefor, the software between the handsets that are used by those who do not have the issue, and those who do, is also a constant.

So, the data collected by the sensor is different. That could be any data. But the data your sensor collects for the iOS to interpret is different from the data collected by users who do not have a sensor issue. And if you found someone who had no issue with their iPhone and swapped your iPhone for theirs, you would find that they would have no issue with your handset, and you would have a proximity sensor issue with their handset.

The design flaw is in not taking into account everyone's usage method.
The only viable solutuon if Apple were to concede to this, is to proviode a software lock out for the sceen so that those who did have the problem could manually override the autosensor and lock the screen.

I just upgraded my trusty 2 years and 9 month old 2G which I gave to my wife.
The new 4G is disappointing n may respects, such as generally poor signal and No Service when holding it normally. Proximity sensor is another problem, if it doesn't halt a call with No Service it cuts out because they are put on hold.

Does anyone ever use hold on a mobile? I would rather have no hold button at all while they find a better fix. Show keypad and speaker don't seem as detrimental as hold.

I hope they fix this with software.

Can't agree with that at all. Maybe they won't have a fix, but there is no way to know yet. And I can think of possible software fixes which would be better than just a user option to turn off the screen.

Granted, the fact it is taking so long is not encouraging, but I'm certainly not going as far as you are in my opinion. Now, if they come out with 4.1 and it doesn't pretty much solve the problem, then I'd be tempted to say they can't really fix it.