MacBook 16-inch Fan Noise

DPJ wrote:

Perfect! Then since you're in still within your return period on your 16" MBP then get an iMac or a Mac Pro so you can get your work done quietly.

I wanted a new laptop in the first place and would have much preferred to use the real deal instead of having to run MacOS in a VM / partition.

I will admit I come from a Windows environment and recently started using MacOS because of iOS app development and started to like the OS and was feeling confident switching my main OS to Mac, thinking I could always use bootcamp for 32 bits apps. I read about the latest Macbook Pro and the reviews were good: fixed keyboard, physical escape key, and then my final checkmark: the product page mentions it supports adding 2 external 6K displays.

In my case, just having a 1440p display playing a Youtube playlist for music while browsing on a 1080p is enough to ramp the fans to 3000rpm and it does annoy me. I have used dual monitors with average Windows laptops several times with zero noticeable impact on fan noise.

I learned in this thread that MacOS handles multiple displays very differently from Windows. Surprisingly Windows is the one less compatible but performs the best. Some are saying Macbooks with a dGPU always had to use a lot more watts just to extend even just one display. Apparently the 16" dGPU actually consumes less than the 2015-2019 15" for the same setup, but the fans are now more audible.

I tested my same setup (one Youtube playlist + typing text) in bootcamp Windows 10 on the 16" and it was about the same thermals, but a little bit better than MacOS

• Bootcamp Windows 10: 60°C - 2700RPM - dGPU 15W
• Mac OS 10.15.4 Catalina: 65°C - 3000RPM - dGPU 19.5W

I decided I will keep using my aging desktop for a bit and might try the 16" again if this gets fixed in an update, or physically fixed on the next gen.

Just to be clear, I am not questioning the overall performance of the 16" like the title suggest. While using it unplugged on my lap, it was silent while browsing / coding with a video playing in picture-in-picture and performed like a beast during actual work. Running super fast, hot and loud during code compilation and cooling down in just about a minute afterwards, which is all great in my book.

The issue is only present with the external displays.

Once upon a time, the Macbook Pro 16" was released announcing better thermals than previous generation, but short after, a thread was created because people were feeling the opposite. It went like this:

• People try to understand why they are noticing more noise / heat than before on their laptop
• They learn it is related to external monitors
• They learn the dGPU consumes either ~10% or in most case ~40% of its TGP by connecting an additional monitor, depending on resolution, frequency and clamshell vs open lid.
• People find third-party apps which keep the CPU at base frequency to reduce the total energy consumption to mitigate heat/noise.
• The community splits in half, one side criticizing the dGPU design and the other defending it.
• Since nobody in here really know how a dGPU work with external monitors, people argue shooting in every direction.
• Moderators have to delete and edit comments because it becomes personal, and we all know about it because we see the posts in our emails
• Out of nowhere, someone desperately needs help with its stolen package :(

I'm looking forward to the next episode, it feels like I just binged watched the latest season of The Macbook Pro but the final episodes are still not released. They really ended on a cliff-hanger this time around. Will UnhappyCustomer21 find his package or did he just lose 3k?

---

In all seriousness, I personally returned the base 16" because of the initial concern but still need a powerful laptop running macOS that can be silent while casually browsing with a podcast opened on a second screen. It would be really nice if someone with a computer hardware engineering background would chime in answering these 2 questions:

• Is this a bug and can it be software-fixed?

Also, as much as I want to know what comes out of this thread, is there a way to unsubscribe to the emails?

jc_9 wrote:

• Once upon a time, the Macbook Pro 16" was released announcing better thermals than previous generation

Which indeed, it has:

Apple Insider: Putting the 16-inch MacBook Pro's thermal management to the test

It would be really nice if someone with a computer hardware engineering background would chime in answering these 2 questions:

Is this a bug and can it be software-fixed?

There are precisely two groups of people who can answer that:

1. Apple engineers, who are not allowed to tell you
2. AMD engineers, who are not allowed to tell you

Also, as much as I want to know what comes out of this thread, is there a way to unsubscribe to the emails?

There is a bug at present where you cannot easily unfollow a thread.

If you really want to invest some time, this approach (written for Safari) does work, but it may take several minutes:

1. At the top of this page, click on the black check-marked "Following" box and it will change to white and will read "Follow"
2. Press ⌘-R to Reload the page
3. If "Following" is in black, repeat starting at step 1; if it remains a white box reading "Follow" you have successfully unsubscribed from this thread

I am experiencing heavy thermal issues, very noisy fan approximately 5-10min after I connect an external display (1920x1080) to my MBP 16 and using it as 2nd screen besides the MBPs display.

• MacBookPro16,1 (i7, AMD Radeon Pro 5300M
• Satechi USB-C Pro Hub with HDMI out
• Samsung S24D390 connected via HDMI
  • this display works flawless with a ThinkPad T460s connected via HDMI

Connecting any other USB-devices (hard disc, head set, mouse, etc.) does not cause these issues. I hoper Apple will provide a fix for this very soon. It's not what I expect of such a pricey notebook.

Man denizcan you leave my Apple heart full of dents when you talk like this. But that is okay, it can take a beat. And I am very skeptical about the latest and not so greatest Macbooks.

For the first time in 13 years I don't have ample confidence that current issues will be solved by Apple. Let me explain:

The thing is that by September 2020 I need 3 school + home laptops for my 3 kids. Since 2007 my policy has been to buy top quality and spend top $$$ as they will (a) last twice as long and (b) be easier and more fun to use so more productive.

Very important also: I am the family system admin and my job can be easier if the units "just work".

I never tried the 16" discussed here, but I have tried and sent back to Apple:

1. 4 2020 MacBook Air ($999 model + i5 upgrade): no heat pipe (peculiar design decision) and my kids had blowing fans most of the time using simple apps, especially with google meet
2. 1 2020 MacBook Pro 13" ($1299 base model): same apps, much quieter fan, but (a) still medium loud fan noise with google meet, (b) 3 times a stalled system process caused 100% CPU which also led to fan noise (must be OS issue) and © the 8GB RAM was full constantly leading to 2GB swap file usage -- so 16GB is the new norm for future proof policy

We have a late 2008 Unibody MB, a 2010 Mac Pro w/ 30" ACD, a late 2013 rMBP15" and a 2017 Air, all still going strong and testimony of the above policy. I have been able to hold off any butterfly kb Macs, but now I must decide on 3 new units and choose from the current lineup.

Normally when in doubt I'd choose a last year's model to be safe but the butterfly kb is a no-go. So what do I do? If I buy future proof, it can only be a 2020 MBP 13", preferably the 2.0 (to help counter CPU hunger) with double fan (to better help cool the CPU), 16GB and 4 ports.

For the first time in 13 years I don't have ample confidence that current issues will be solved by Apple. They fail to acknowledge some of their mistakes (missing heat pipe on the 2020 Air, these fan issues on the 16"), they fail to cut their losses for too long and move on (butterfly keyboard) and they don't manage to decently repair their buggy Catalina OS before the next WWDC.

Don't get me wrong - I want to like the new Apple products. Mind you - I am an Apple fan boy, in my family we now use 4 Macs, 7 iPhones, 4 iPads, 1 Apple Watch, we have Apple Music and extended iCloud storage plans. So far my job to admin it all is pretty easy.

I could go Windows route for the new school laptops. But I haven't got a clue what I will get myself into as I have not been taking interest at all in Windows for over a decade.

I think the best thing now is to order 3 new 2020 2.0 MBP 13" units and let the kids test them out before the holiday season starts...

w0203j wrote:

Wait for the long term fix that will come eventually.

w0203j: I really hope it will...

We get it, you love your machine, it's all great but criticism is good for everyone in the long term.

People are watching this thread for some actual news / fix to come out.

This constant defensive stance doesn't help anyone.

I also think its a fantastic device, BUT:

• Every Macbook Pros 16" behave the same way when connected to specific displays.
• Just one monitor plugged in can trigger the dGPU to run in the 18W+ mode.
• In the 18W+ mode, idle temperature never drops below 60°C in a climatised room.
• Some people have success using clamshell + one display at 144hz (or other setups) triggering the low 5W mode.
• It objectively runs hotter and noisier than previous gens with the same setups on idle.
• Apparently using the i7 over the i9 gives you a little more headroom.

The vast majority of contributors to this thread feels there are serious issues concerning heat or at least high fan spin + noise, which was largely absent on previous models running similar tasks.

• So far no final solution provided by Apple
• only possible workarounds like changing refresh rates on connected external monitors or. running in clamshell mode to alleviate but not solve the issues
• 10.15.5 appears to be a step backward concerning these issues
• If you are bothered by the fan noise at all, you can return within 14 days or take a chance that Apple brings out better software in the future

I think that quite sums up the last 5 pages.

William, you're an army of single man and I wonder what is your motivation to spend so much time in this thread arguing with ABSOLUTELY EVERYONE on the subject!

Yes, I had something very close to shut down due to – well – quite heavy conditions last days: about 30ºC in the room and noticeable amount of dust collected in air flow channels due to my lack of attention. MBP shut down looks like heavy CPU thermal throttling down to 1Ghz. After cleaning vents the situation got somewhat better. So you have your single report.

BUT NONETHELESS I want to point out:

• drawing 18W of power in 60 hz mode and 5W in 144 hz mode hints of some software bug in GPU driver.
• justifying fans spin just because I use external screen while idling/with minimal load is ridiculous. I had MBP 15/2016 with radeon 455 and 10 y.o. HP with discrete GPU. None of this kind of issues with same display.

This is what different people are trying to tell you. If you're okay with fan spinning – we absolutely see that. Сome on! Apple in it's thermal design approarch tended to let their computers run on hotter side so they are more silent!

I really wish this issue to be fixed. And I really hesitated about getting into this discussion

I'd completely love my new 16" MBP had it not been for this issue.

I'm literally just using 1 tab on Google Chrome, which is Google Hangouts for an online meeting, connected to an external 2k 15" monitor and here's what's going on:

• Temp: 67 °C - 75 °C
• Leftside Fans Speed: 4.6k
• Rightside Fans Speed: 4.3k

Currently, my speakers are set at 65% volume, instead of 35% which I normally use, just so I can hear my team in the video-call instead of the fans going crazy next to me.

William, do you consider that to be an appropriate and acceptable performance of the new MBP?

William Kucharski wrote:

LeoKost wrote:

Oh, so the point you're trying to make through all your responses is that "If it turns ON, IT WORKS". Okay then, yea, sure.

Cute, but I never said that, rather the inverse:

If your machine does not hit thermal shutdown, you can still get whatever you bought your MPB 16 for done.

No Mr Kurcharski,

What I want from my laptop is not that simple.. What I want is:

1. Being dead silent.. I moved all the noise creating systems outside of my room, and I want to concentrate on my job, not a hair dryer.. This so called "computer" is the only thing that creates noise in my room..
2. Nice keyboard (check)
3. Nice enough display (check)

If #1 is not there, I do not care the rest.. Really I DO NOT CARE! I do not care the computation power, I do not care the graphics, I do not care the keyboard, I do not care the display.. I am that much used to the silent computers.. Even my desktop was much more powerful than this machine and it was dead silent unless I force it..

Actually I totally stop using this machine, unless for iOS.. Instead I am using 5 year old, graphically much more capable monster.. Even it creates less noise, a humm in the background that's it.. I'll sell this machine, continue using 13" for just support iOS.. That will be my last Apple device..

We understand that you do not care noise.. Good for you.. People care, that's why they are asking the solution, not your "if it does not thermal shutdown" advise.. Do you really have any solution to fan's running unnecessaryly high? If not why are you trying to convince people that it is ok?

Thermal shutdown? Actually it does.. Sometimes external monitor connected it does! The funs ramps all the way up and resets..

I don't know about cables, but in my successful use of external monitors, there are two obvious factors that may or may not be significant:

• Both were connected via a TB3 to Mini DisplayPort adapter and a Mini DisplayPort cable to the monitor
• Both were of lower resolution than the built-in screen (2560x1600 or 2560x1440)

• RHS drawing 0.7 W without a monitor, and drawing 21.86W with your U2717D
• Your laptop is almost ready to explode with those temps

In addition to that, which is essentially the problem that we're all reporting into this thread, for some reason your fans won't turn up to higher RPM to cool down your VERY HOT (based on the temps we're seeing in those screenshots) Macbook, which makes your laptop's condition & performance more worrisome, LOL.

[Edited by Moderator]

I watched the Aussie guy video about the 5600M. Two things:

1. in fact the 5600M unit produces 40dB of noise where the 5500M unit did 50dB. That is about 8 times less noise - if it's true. It's hopeful but we'll have to see that backed up by more reviews coming.
2. the guy says he thinks the Intel units are legacy products already as Apple will switch to ARM so developers will deprecate the Intel Macs and only develop the real advancements for the ARM lines, only giving the minimum updates to the Intel units.

I doubt #2. Macs tend to have a 6-8 year life span so for the next 5 years at least Intel Macs will still constitute the vast majority of Mac units worldwide. Maybe pros will sell off their intel units prematurely to reach for a new ARM unit, but still. As I understand it from the WWDC, developers will be able to dual compile for ARM in a matter of hours or days so intel and ARM software versions are likely to offer identical features. Also, developers don't seem to be able to code specifically towards the ARM architecture.

William Kucharski wrote:

The results above were playing YouTube videos at 1080p for 30 minutes using Safari in full screen mode on the Dell while using Safari to read Apple Support Discussions on the laptop screen, then closing that window and taking the iStat Menus screen shot.

Could you try this again with Chrome? Apple spends a lot of time optimizing Safari, making use of all possible hardware decoding, etc. where available. Most (many?) users don't use Safari in practice.

Also, could you another test? Follow these steps:

1. Open QuickTime.
2. Go to "File → New Movie Recording" (actually recording is optional)
3. Go to "File → New Screen Recording" and begin capturing the full screen.
4. Open a YouTube video in Safari and make it Full Screen.
5. Use the three-finger swipe left/right gestures on the trackpad to go back and forth between the full screen video and the desktop.
6. Use the three-finger swipe up/down gestures on the trackpad to trigger expose features.

I've found that my 2018 15" MBP will start doing it's "death throttle, fans a-blazing" thing with this workflow, even though the CPU usage doesn't approach anything heavy at all.

William Kucharski wrote:

Many here claimed that just connecting a monitor and letting it sit idle would cause any MBP 16’s fans to go crazy, and that’s clearly not the case.

I also disagree “most use Chrome;” I use Safari exclusively and use Chrome on macOS maybe monthly at best, mostly because it can even cause the fans on my iMac to spin up.

I think we're in a battle of "I said; you said". Let's bring in a neutral third party here. Specifically, the following is macOS browser usage over the last 13 months:

• Chrome: 54.42%
• Safari: 38.85%
• Firefox: 5.54%

[Source.]

Part of my point, William, is that your usage of Safari in your "benchmark tests" is effectively meaningless. The tests you ran would have Safari sipping so little power as to effectively equate to the laptop sitting idle. Most people do not use their laptops idle - they use a MacBook Pro for professional purposes, including [and especially these days] video calls and screen sharing.

If your laptop idles with no fans but starts to spin up after a few minutes of more than trivial CPU usage, then I'd suggest that your machine suffers the very same issue that everyone here is reporting. Your machine may simply have a "lucky CPU/GPU" in that the CPU and/or GPU placed in your machine happened to be particularly "good" coming out of the fabrication binning process.

The basic question here is "how much does it take for your machine to start turning on its fans"?