So if the signal drop is caused by the hand physically blocking antennae...

Allan Sampson wrote:

Thanks so much, but I'm very much informed on the "issue". As I said before, I have not had a dropped call or data transfer problem where I live and the places I frequent most, and I would very much appreciate you stop trying to tell me that I am when I'm not - dude.

And there is the common refrain from the Apple crowd when they're not cursing you out. In their self-centered world (hmm, kind of like Mr. Jobs?) if THEY have no problems then they don't really care if YOU have problems because after all, their phone is perfect. After all, according to so many here, you're either 'hiding behind an alias', 'haven't listed your hobbies', a 'troll' or an 'MS Fanboy'...all or any of which negate your findings whether their true or not. Pretty intelligent way to look at things right?

Seriously people, enough. We have a bad economy, an oil spill, and several wars to be worried about. A few dropped calls and lost bars!!!!! Like the Youtube guy said, if your unhappy just return it and wait for the "perfect" phone. Otherwise, get on with your lives. Really.

Zebra1 wrote:
Vid,

After I wiped the floor with you over your upload speeds, you still try to make noise aren't you.

Maybe I should unearth all that moaning you did a few days ago until AT&T admitted it was THEIR problem that uploads speeds for the iPhone 4 were it's own and Lucent's fault!!!!

You couldn't wipe the floor with a mop. You are one of the WORST offenders on this forum. Did you wipe the floor with me on the proximity sensor after I've disconnected a number of calls? Did you wipe the floor with me on antenna design which is obviously faulty. Did you wipe the floor with me when its now been shown the I4 has HARDWARE issues after YOU contended all along that it was software and berated people for using the word 'hardware'?

You're like a bad politician that when caught in some act, accuses his competition of exactly that same act even though there is no proof.

So Zebra, it's actually you that should be VERY embarrassed after its become quite clear that the IPhone has defective HARDWARE, not SOFTWARE as you've been claiming. You 'think' you know it all, but in reality you know very little other than how to berate people here with problems. You've been called out by many many people, many of whom won't even acknowledge you anymore.

separatepieces wrote:
My assessment of the I4 and the problems that have been posted in these forums is this: I have not experienced the antenna problem myself but obviously it is a problem for some people. The antenna issue can be greatly magnified to the extent any positive feature of the phone is ignored. For me, I try to make sure that 1 bad tree does not disproportionately obscure the beauty and reality of the whole forest. Antenna problem / life lesson.

You are correct again for the most part. The problem however becomes the issue of how does one rate the importance of all the features? For most people, myself included, a 'smart phone' must first and foremost be an excellent phone. The I4 fails in that respect in my experience. I agree that the bumper does mitigate the issue for many, but not all. I've actually got 2 cases for my I4, the infamous bumper and the IFrog case. When I travel, particularly by plane when going through security, I prefer the IFrog case for the real protection it offers. Let's face it, the 'bumper' offers no protection for the phone other than to cover the defective hardware design.

I use the bumper more when I'm home. But even with the antenna isolation of a case required for the defective hardware design, my reception is still not as good as my wife's 3GS.

So that leaves with you the other features of the I4 that are very nice and I appreciate. Of course my wife's upload & download speeds are still often better than my I4's, but I've kind of accepted that now as a fact of life. I can live with a bit slower speeds, but I just don't know about the phone issue.

So that leaves me with taking a very hard look at the upcoming Samsung Captivate. CNET's review leaves little doubt that it performs better as a 'phone' than the I4. So that's a big plus. I'll need to weigh that against the possible compromise in some feature sets relative to the I4. We shall see.

Thanks for a breath of fresh air with your posts. I enjoy reading reasoned responses...a rarity here.

Montana wrote:
The curious thing is - some people have this problem while others don't. I don't. Can't reproduce it.

I have a friend who shares her iPhone 4 with her husband. (Yeah, I know. But, they also have an iPod Touch.) She hasn't had any reception problems. He could barely make a call. She has small cool dry hands. He has big sweaty ham hands. Her solution? She very carefully painted clear nail polish all around the outer band. So far so good.

That's certainly one of the things we've come across in reading people's experience with the I4's hardware issues. Her husband's issue would never have been an issue had the antenna been internalized. But leaving it exposed on the outside (ever wonder why no other manufacturer ever used this design...even those with FAR more experience in cellphone design than Apple?), has made it susceptible to exactly this kind of issue.

You can bet that the next version of the IPhone will not have an external antenna or if so, will have some kind of durable (it better be durable) protective coating on the metal.

reality_150 wrote:
I think I will return iphone 4, and get droid x. if the problems with the phone werent enough, antenna, and proximity sensor, steve with his arrogance still denying design flaw, when even the dumbest people know that grabbing a antenna greatly reduces reception.

And that does bring up an interesting point. How is it that Apple, with all of its technology, has stumbled big time twice with this phone. First, they were 'stunned' that they were computing signal strength wrong for years. Tell me how something as simple as an antenna display calculation could have been wrong for one model after the next and it wasn't unit the proverbial '-hit hit the fan' that they 'found' this issue? Strain the credibility? It does mine.

Second, we have the flawed antenna design. Despite warnings from antenna experts both internal (yes, I know Stevie claimed that was untrue...uh huh, just like the I4 was the 'best ever' for reception...until yesterday) and external, they went ahead with this design. Wouldn't you think someone at Apple would have said, 'gee you know there are cellphone companies that have been designing cellphones for far longer than us, have more expertise in this area than us and yet nobody has ever done that'. Of course it appears the pompous attitude that says "We don't care that no one else has done it, WE know how to do it and make it work" was the approach that won out. Too bad, it could have been a great phone and they simply followed traditional antenna design and kept the antenna internal.

Dan Slocum wrote:

ed2020 wrote:

Dan Slocum wrote:
Don't Cry For Me Argentina.
The phones will go back AT THE END of my 30-day window

Why wait if they're so unusable as a phone?

Our Droid X units will be delivered at the end of my window. I don't have a home phone so this is my phone for now.

Dan, are you switching to Verizon? Why not take a look at the Samsung Captivate on AT&T coming out tomorrow? Looks to have great potential.

tedkord wrote:
Here is what the apple supporters are missing - if there is no antenna problem caused by contact with the two antennae, and the issue is the same as all other phones (blocking the signal with your hand), then adding a bumper will not change a thing, and those who try a bumper will see no improvement. Your hand will still be blocking the antenna.

And, both anandtech and CR showed, with scientific testing, that the ip4 loses 20-24db signal when the antennae are jumpered. No other phone they tested came anywhere near this level of signal loss.


So, if a bumper alleviates the signal loss issue, then it must be an issue with contact. That is a design flaw.

BTW, I am posting this from my Samsung Omnia II. It also has it's own flaws, but I can hold it any way I want with no signal loss. And I gotta say, swype is awesome.

Message was edited by: tedkord

Interesting post and so true.

Most of this is not true with the Samsung Captivate. The Captivate has a 4" OLED display, arguably one of, if not the best display around. It is brighter, larger and more vivid than the LCD display of the I4 even though the I4 has higher rez. Those who have seen it say you soon forget the lower rez when you see the gorgeous brightness and colors as well as the larger size.

It's size is not 'bricky' and it's actually a tiny bit thinner than the I4. It's on AT&T, so whatever applies to the I4 in terms of data & talk also applies to the Captivate. The phone's camera & HD video quality I'll wait to see myself, but I suspect the I4 will be better in this respect.

I know you don't want to hear this, and are so focused on your perception that Mr. Jobs lied in his press conference, and you are perplexed why only you, and a few others here, were smart enough to discover his "lie". I believe I can answer that for you.

You are working under the mistaken premise that "Better reception" = "Dropped Calls Measurements"

They are not equivalent. By measurements that Apple has done overall the iPhone in areas where there is good reception gets better reception, and higher speed, than any previous iPhone that Apple has produced. And this stands to reason as the antenna is a semi-external antenna and would provide a better antenna (Sidebar: Reading an AP article today I had to laugh as it described all other phones having internal antennas. Guess I'm just too old, I remember a day when all phones had external anntennas, even my last phone, the Treo 650 had an external antenna, but it was covered in rubber. I'm sure radio engineers hated it when they were directed to come up with internal antennas for design sake) than an internal. But, just like early phones with pull out metal antennas, touch it and you get attenuation. If you are in a low signal area you can even drop signal, and calls faster than one with an internal antenna. So you can actually have a case where a cell phone has better reception (and faster data speeds if a smart phone) but drops more calls compared to an earlier model.

If you want an analogy, which has better reception in a car, terrestial radio (FM) or Satellite radio? I can drive from one coast to the other and listen to Outlaw Country or The Loft on Sirius, but I lose 95.3, the Range before I get to the Arbuckle mountains. But if I go to the Southlake Apple Store and park in the parking garage my Satellite signal is gone, but I can still listen to the Range.

I also noticed that Bloomberg, and their reporter, did not challenge Apple's denial of their story at all to this point.

So please stop making this a moral and ethical issue. Of course Apple is going to present this in the best light that they can. If you have the antenna attenuation issue put a case or bumper on it and move on if you want. If you don't return the phone and get your money back. Even CR said if you used a case, bumper, or some tape it solved the attenuation issue.

If you like the Captivate, and would like to try the Android OS for awhile, return your iPhone, get your money back and get the Samsung. The review on CNET did look good although they are not equipped to do any real scientific testing of the signal, dropped calls, etc. Do be prepared for a short battery life. As I pointed out in another thread be sure that Apple has notified AT&T and reset your eligibility before going to get your Captivate or you will have to pay full price for it.

Dan Slocum wrote:
Our Droid X units will be delivered at the end of my window. I don't have a home phone so this is my phone for now.

So why are you even still posting in these forums if you are jumping ship to a phone that can't last a full day on a single charge. I hope you are getting some extra batteries with your droid.

vidguy7 wrote:
Most of this is not true with the Samsung Captivate. The Captivate has a 4" OLED display, arguably one of, if not the best display around. It is brighter, larger and more vivid than the LCD display of the I4 even though the I4 has higher rez. Those who have seen it say you soon forget the lower rez when you see the gorgeous brightness and colors as well as the larger size.

It's size is not 'bricky' and it's actually a tiny bit thinner than the I4. It's on AT&T, so whatever applies to the I4 in terms of data & talk also applies to the Captivate. The phone's camera & HD video quality I'll wait to see myself, but I suspect the I4 will be better in this respect.

No front facing camera which every other smartphone is starting to come out with and I bet the battery life ***** as well just like every other android phone I have seen. My wife has the sprint moment and the battery life on that thing is horrible. Even my 3G had better battery life than her moment. Also noticed that it is shipping with 2.1. How come if it hasn't even come out yet they can't put 2.2 on it? Iphon4 still kills this phone and even CR rated the IP4 the best smartphone on the market.

Apple's attempt to say this is common in all smart phones may be true, however, it's quite simply a design flaw in the iphone 4, and they know it. The fact they're offering free bumpers alone means they screwed up in the engineering process.. otherwise they wouldn't bother giving aways cases. there was never this much fuss over the 3GS signal, if any. the iPhone 4, like any product, it should not require additional attachments to make it function correctly, like a bumper, it's really pathetic.

It's all a little too convenient too that the first release of any kind of Apple iPhone case, comes out along side the iPhone 4.