Intimidating behavior and deleted threads

Hi Andy, sorry about the slams over in the Apple 4 forum, but that place is like the Wild, Wild West right now. And I generally would not recommend any forum as a good place to do research on whether you buy a product. Since the purpose of AD is for peer-to-peer support for technical problems you will get a skewed view. To trot out the overused analogy, it would be like an alien visiting a big city hospital and based on that deciding that all humans are sick.

Which leads to your other issues. Wish lists are not permitted because they are in any other name a poll, which is excluded in the Terms of Use. You can use Apple Feedback, which I'm sure you've seen the link by now, to put in your opinion to Apple. As far as your post about a technical reason why AVRCP is not included, no on here would know that and it really is a workaround question to discuss Apple policy. If you started that thread you should have received an email from the moderators explaining why it was deleted.

Andy,

+"It just seems a shame to me that users can't have an open discussion around their hopes and wishes for a product, it seems a rule too far."+

Apple Discussions is almost certainly the best site you will find for help with Apple problems and I think that 'rule too far' gives it a narrow focus which is probably one of the reasons that it is so good. There are other places where people can chew the fat.

+"If people don't want to engage in that then they can move on"+

There is some truth in that but allowing such posts would produce clutter and make browsing forums more difficult (and reduce the narrow focus I referred to). You can also bet that threads would begin to carry some 'comment' mixed in with the technical questions and answers that rightly belong here thereby having their value reduced.

+"if I started a thread saying "What do you think about the iPad?" for example, I run the risk of it being removed or being slammed by people because it's not a technical question, and I find it deeply patronising"+

I don't know what your specific experience has been but I would comment that there are often posts here talking about being slammed (and often mentioning high number posters as being particularly bad in that respect) which on examining the posts in question reveal only a polite reference to Terms of Use. There is, of course, no excuse for pointing that out in a rude or aggressive manner.

As deggie suggests discussions in some forums are a little more - shall we say - robust than in others, but experience in the forums I have frequented in my time here suggests that Apple Discussions provide a remarkably gentle and polite environment. To me that is especially true of the high number posters, most of whom are remarkably helpful and tolerant in my experience. One or two can be a little blunt on occasions but certainly in some cases that is because they are not posting in their native language. Of course what you might detect on occasions from some old-timers is a degree of exasperation due to their seeing Discussions (in which they have invested a lot of time and effort in giving help to others) being weakened and perhaps even threatened by vents, rants, mudslinging and whatever.

I realise that your example question "What do you think about the iPad?" was purely hypothetical but it might nicely serve as an example of a thoroughly bad question which is unlikely to get useful answers. Much better would be something along the lines of "Could I do X, Y and Z with the iPad?", a specific question which would seem to be within ToU and which would get specific answers.

Michael

Hello Andy

I fully agree with your comments about frequent users who yield unreasonable influence. It can be torturous on the FC Forum. You can spend hours trying to state your difficulties only to have these 'so-called' professionals re-direct your response, or Hi Jack your post. The frustrating part is that occasionally other morons will join in the fight, and slam your remarks making it impossible to gain credibility - your 'death nell'

Frankly, I'm sick of it ....

Mike

Mike

You've made this allegation twice now

... only to have these 'so-called' professionals re-direct your response, or Hi Jack your post.

Why not post a link to some threads where this has happened?

Frequent Users of the forum wield no influence at all. Thy have no ability to delete, edit or moderate or "re-direct" posts or threads, they have no ability change anything on the forum in any way at all. The only people who can do any such things are the Apple Moderators.

Regards

TD

Terrence

Don't get me wrong - I find these discussions most informative. I've also made some great friends here. Maybe gained a little respect as well. I'm a 62 year old semi-retired filmmaker/researcher/ producer, (please see my trailer).

My feelings are shared by a few other professional filmmakers who refuse to post anything anymore specifically on the Final Cut Forum. Sure most people don't have a clue of what I'm talking about, nor are they affected. These are the majority of the younger inexperienced filmmakers who get some benefit from the forum.

But my views are REAL, and can be justified. The problem is, there exists a large sorority of followers who do not share my objections or views. At times, they will support curt replies from 'some' that shun any cordial exchange in order to continue the discussion.

LISTEN;
I'm only saying here, there are a 'FEW' very experienced editors who's style is to shut down your discussion by stating their short curt replies insinuating that NO other views or opinions exist, or do not have the patience to understand your issue. Sure I can give you a few names, but I'm not going to get into a P.....ing contest.

Unless I'm wrong, it seems some users (with 2-5 levels), have the ability thru a line of communication to sway a moderator to close/delete a discussion. Unless of course these folks are in fact moderators?

I can start a new thread, (this is not the place), and show you examples of my claims, (bring up some old discussions), but I feel it's all in vain. Because I know it will be business as usual.

Thanx anyway, and thank you always for your professional courtesy
Mike
http://vimeo.com/7340608

ENIGMACODE wrote:
Unless I'm wrong, it seems some users (with 2-5 levels), have the ability thru a line of communication to sway a moderator to close/delete a discussion. Unless of course these folks are in fact moderators?

All users level 2 and above can report a post to the Hosts for possible editing or deletion. Beyond that, users don't really have any sway over the Hosts.

Hosts are identified by a purple Apple avatar. Apple employees who are not hosts are identified by silver Apples. As far as I know, they have no more pull with the Hosts than the rest of us.

"All users level 2 and above can report a post to the Hosts for possible editing or deletion"

Case Closed

I'm sorry to disagree - It's my opinion some of these folks have already established a relationship with Apple Moderators.

I stand by my other comments - I will not be swayed by the influences others may have.

As frustrating as it may be, I will continue to ask for help, and try to help others.

Thank you
Mike

ENIGMACODE wrote:
As frustrating as it may be, I will continue to ask for help, and try to help others.

The only way to gain any kind of status here is to be awarded points by your fellow users who find you helpful. If enough people find your posts helpful and award you points, you, too, can become a Level 2 and will have the ability to report posts directly. Your profile indicates that you currently have 45 points. You will reach level 2 at 150.

Mike,

Terence said "Why not post a link to some threads where this has happened?"

Why not do that so others can see just how bad the alleged situation is?

Michael

Unless I'm wrong, it seems some users (with 2-5 levels), have the ability thru a line of communication to sway a moderator to close/delete a discussion.

I can state categorically that you are wrong on this count. Posters with Level 4 status or higher have a special forum where we can discuss technical or forum issues among ourselves, and a notification (which as has been posted any user here with Level 2 status or higher has access to) from one of the higher-level posts might be more quickly noticed by a Host. But we have no more direct influence on what the Hosts remove or allow then you do or anyone else here does. Believe me, if I had direct influence, there are a lot of posts that would have been removed that the Hosts have allowed to remain.

Unless of course these folks are in fact moderators?

No, we are not. Discussions Hosts, and any other Apple employee, are clearly identified by the Apple logo under their name.

Any forum here, and on most other discussions board, gets it's share of "know-it-alls" that feel that their opinion is the only one that is valid. It's unfortunate, but it happens everywhere (and not just in on-line forums). Usually such people are quickly identified and ignored and they eventually get tired and go away. But it does make things really annoying in the meanwhile. We all just have to decide whether the possibility of encountering such people is worth the information we get from participating. If you find it's not worth it, there are other forums, such as CreativeCow, that you might find to be more worth your time.

Regards.

Hello Dave

Thanx for your input - yes I agree these forums all have their share of 'know-it alls' (it's unavoidable). But in the FC forum, (unlike others), on other Apple Discussions, there is way too much of this behavior.

Could you take a moment and read this post (I didn't want to continue posting my problem on someone else's topic).

http://discussions.apple.com/message.jspa?messageID=11985436#11985436

Thanx Dave
Mike

Andy,

I just reported that post as a violation for rude insulting behavior.

... and this from an L4 in the same thread:

"You had no problem shelling out $500+ in this economic time but you're going to cry about $50 because you didn't try out the device on websites your daughter uses. "