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If I use Apple’s system of moving Desktop and Documents to iCloud Drive, do they also remain on my hard disk or don’t they? I have seen many ambiguous and confusing statements, but no conclusive one. Do they remain or not? A simple, unambiguous yes or no would be immensely welcome.
Mac mini, macOS 10.14
Thank you very much indeed, FoxFifth. This is the first, simple, straightforward, unambiguous statement on the subject I have come across. I am anxious to avail myself of the ability to access my files from my phone, but I also want to be able to access them from my Mac even if my internet connection is down.
One particular statement that has confused me in the past is the word 'move' in the following, from the Apple Support document to which you have given the link above, and which I had also read some time ago: 'When you add your Desktop and Documents to iCloud Drive, all of your files move to iCloud and any new files you create are automatically stored in iCloud too.'
I do still have two questions:
(1) My iCloud Drive has a lot of old documents and desktop items in it from an earlier attempt to use a folder-comparison app to put my material there. Must I manually remove all this before doing it again by Apple's method?
(2) If I update a document on my Mac, does it get updated in iCloud automatically?
Thank you again, also for the information about Optimize Mac Storage.
Thank you very much indeed, FoxFifth. This is the first, simple, straightforward, unambiguous statement on the subject I have come across. I am anxious to avail myself of the ability to access my files from my phone, but I also want to be able to access them from my Mac even if my internet connection is down.
One particular statement that has confused me in the past is the word 'move' in the following, from the Apple Support document to which you have given the link above, and which I had also read some time ago: 'When you add your Desktop and Documents to iCloud Drive, all of your files move to iCloud and any new files you create are automatically stored in iCloud too.'
I do still have two questions:
(1) My iCloud Drive has a lot of old documents and desktop items in it from an earlier attempt to use a folder-comparison app to put my material there. Must I manually remove all this before doing it again by Apple's method?
(2) If I update a document on my Mac, does it get updated in iCloud automatically?
Thank you again, also for the information about Optimize Mac Storage.
They do remain on your Mac -- unless you turn on the Optimize Mac Storage option, in which case they may or may not be on your Mac.
See the following from Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive - Apple Support
If you need more space on your device, iCloud Drive can help. On your Mac, choose Apple menu > System Preferences. Click Apple ID, then click iCloud. On macOS Mojave or earlier, choose Apple menu > System Preferences, then click iCloud. Turn on Optimize Mac Storage. Then your Mac keeps all of your recent files on your computer, but keeps your older ones only in iCloud, ready for you to download when you need them again
If by "transferred Documents and Desktop to iCloud Drive" you mean that you turned on the Desktop and Documents option in iCloud Drive and did not turn on the Optimize Storage option, that does NOT remove your documents from your Mac. To access them, see the following from Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive - Apple Support
In the Finder, you'll see your Desktop and Documents folder in the iCloud section of your sidebar.
No, I do not mean that. The text that you quote is from the "Turn off Desktop and Documents" section of Add your Desktop and Documents files to iCloud Drive - Apple Support
That would apply only after you turn off the Desktop and Documents option.
The applicable section when it is turned on is:
On your Mac
You can find the files on your Desktop and in your Documents folder in the Finder under iCloud. You can also search for the
titles with Spotlight.
I'm not sure exactly what you did before and what you want to do now, but the following may help.
If you turn on iCloud Drive in Apple menu > System Preferences > iCloud (or in Catalina Apple ID > iCloud) but do not turn on the Desktop and Documents option and do not turn on the Optimize Storage option, then any files in the iCloud Drive folder are synced to iCloud (and any folders that you manually add to iCloud Drive via a browser at iCloud.com would also sync to your Mac). You can access the iCloud Drive folder on your Mac via Finder "Go" menu; you can also access the iCloud Drive folder more conveniently by adding it to your Finder Sidebar via the option in Finder Preferences.
If you didn't have the Desktop and Documents option turned on and you somehow manually added some files to iCloud Drive from your Desktop and Documents folders, that would mean that you now have two copies of those files (one in the iCloud Drive folder on your Mac and another in their original folder on your Mac -- unless you moved them from the original folder to the iCloud Drive folder. If you made any changes to the files in their original folder, that would not update the iCloud Drive copy on your Mac and in iCloud.
In short the simplest way to use iCloud Drive is to turn it on in System Preferences, don't turn on the Desktop and Documents option, don't turn on the Optimize Storage option, move (don't copy) files you want to sync to the iCloud Drive folder in Finder. Those files will be both on your Mac and iCloud (and any other device where you have iCloud Drive turned on) and any changes to those files on your Mac will be synced to iCloud.
If you want everything in your Desktop and Documents folders on your Mac to be in iCloud Drive, then turn that option on. If you had previously added a copy of any of those files to iCloud Drive and left the original in your Desktop or Documents folder on your Mac, as stated above you would have 2 copies of those files on your Mac; when you turn on the Desktop and Documents option on your Mac you will have also have 2 copied on iCloud.
Help!
I decided I would sort out any duplications later on, and transferred Documents and Desktop to iCloud Drive — and now I cannot find them on my Mac at all! This is exactly what I feared would happen despite FoxFifth's reassurance in the post above. The curious thing, though, is that the amount of free space left on my HD is much the same as before despite all those files having gone to iCloud Drive
What can I do now?
FoxFifth, yes, I turned on the Desktop and Documents option in iCloud Drive and did not turn on the Optimize Storage option. For finding them still on my Mac — or returning them to the Mac without turning off the iCloud Drive option, do you mean this from the support document: 'You can move files from iCloud Drive to your Mac as you need them, or select all of your files and drag them to the place you want to keep them'?
Otherwise I cannot see them on my Mac at all any more.
I'm sorry to be so obtuse, but I can indeed see them under 'iCloud Files', which (for convenience) I have in my sidebar on the Mac. But surely what I am seeing there is up there in the Cloud, in iCloud Files, not on my Mac any more?
Michael Graubart wrote:
I'm sorry to be so obtuse, but I can indeed see them under 'iCloud Files', which (for convenience) I have in my sidebar on the Mac. But surely what I am seeing there is up there in the Cloud, in iCloud Files, not on my Mac any more?
No, no, no. If you did not turn on the Optimize Storage option, they are on your Mac as well as on iCloud (assuming they have had time to sync to iCloud). You view them on your Mac in that folder in Finder. If you don't believe it, turn off the wi-fi on your Mac (may want to wait until syncing has completed).
Michael Graubart wrote:
PS: I have searched for particular files and the search only identifies locations in iCloud Files, not on the Mac.
Search shows them where they are -- in the iCloud Drive folder on your Mac.
Aha! I’m beginning to understand! So ‘iCloud Files’ in Finder on my Mac takes me to a folder on my Mac, not to a folder or subsection of iCloud - i.e. not to something on a hard disk on one of hundreds of Apple-owned computers (in Silicon Valley, presumably).
But how then can I now, in Files on my iphone, find, open and read documents in that folder on my Mac?
Is it the case then that iCloud Files is not a folder, or collection of folders, in the Cloud at all, but a means of opening a direct line of communication between my Mac and my phone?
If so, it would make sense of a great deal of this conversation. But in that case why does Apple name it in that misleading way?
The iCloud Drive folder in Finder on your Mac is two things -- you can access the local copy of the file on your Mac and, if you have the Optimize Storage option turned on and one or more of your files does not have a local copy, you can also access those files (they will download to the Mac as needed). Any changes you make to the local copy are synced to the copy in iCloud.
Files on your iPhone is an application, not a folder or collection of folders. It does not have a direct line of communication to your Mac; it communicates with iCloud Drive in iCloud (and with other services such as Microsoft OneDrive). When you use Files on your iPhone to access a file that originated on your Mac, it downloads the file from iCloud to your phone and any changes that you make to it on your phone are synced back to iCloud and from there back to your Mac.
Thank you, FoxFifth, for these further explanations. Fog is beginning to lift a little despite the mass of misinformation and noninformation around.
I have to say that I ought to have been able before today to fathom the iCloud/iCloud File entanglement! I have a degree in physics and worked for a while as a development engineer at EMI before switching to my later main interest, music. But in my day as an engineer and then a teacher, experimental computers used valves (tubes in US English) - tens of thousands of them - instead of chips, since not even transistors had been developed. Dark Ages! Much has changed since then.
Thank you again for shining some light into the present conceptual darkness.
PS: I have searched for particular files and the search only identifies locations in iCloud Files, not on the Mac.
Glad to help. Some of the ways that Apple has implemented iCloud features do make it confusing.
Desktop & Documents in iCloud: remain on Mac?
