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Finder never finishes copying Time Machine backup to different drive

This is NOT the "Time Machine gets stuck preparing backup" issue. I'm trying to transfer a Time Machine Backups.backupdb folder to another volume, and the Finder never finishes. It keeps copying more and more data until the destination drive is full, and if anyone else is having this problem, I can't find the search terms to get a fix. Here are the details.


I'd been backing up my Mac Pro to the same Time Machine volume as my Mack Book Air. I didn't know Time Machine wasn't supposed to be able to backup more than one Mac per volume. The MBA was first, so the .sparsebundle file at the root level of the volume is its backup, and Time Machine created a Backups.backupdb folder for the Mac Pro. It's been working fine, but now I'm out of room and want to stop the dialog that asks me if I want to keep the backups separate every time I start one, so I'm trying to copy the Backups.backupdb to another drive and get it set up properly.


I followed the instructions on the support page. I turned off Time Machine, turned off "Ignore ownership on this volume" on the destination volume, and dragged the folder over to the new drive. It copied for hours and just kept growing until the whole destination drive was full.


Both backups are now together on one 700GB partition. I can't tell the exact size of the Backups.backupdb because if I get info on the folder, it will say it's calculating the size forever, but the .sparsebundle on the same partition is 409 GB and there's just under 8 GB free, so it's about 283 GB. I tried to copy it to a volume with over 500 GB free space. It prepares to copy, asks me to authenticate, begins to copy, and behaves normally with the file count and estimated time remaining moving along as expected with the progress bar. It even calculates the size properly. But, when it gets down to "Copying 0 items to …" and the estimated time left is "About 5 seconds" it just keeps going and the size keeps growing. Last night I let it run until it completely filled the destination volume, and only about half of the folders were inside the Backups.backupdb on the destination volume.


I tried it again tonight on a different 1 TB partition. It's doing the same thing. It started at 247 GB and change and copied just fine until it gets to 0 files. The status is now at 314.42 GB of 314.42 GB and they both keep going up together. There's no way the folder is actually that large, so I'm assuming it's following a soft link somewhere and it's creating a loop.


I am wondering if the cp command set to not follow symbolic links will copy everything over with the proper permissions and other resources needed for Time Machine to use the backup. Or does Apple have a different command line utility that will work better for this?


I've thought of creating an archive of it and expanding it to the destination. I'm assuming Keka would handle the job, but I'm hoping there's a solution that won't take hours of experimenting and testing.


Or could it be the Mojave Finder? I have Yosemite on the Mac Book Air, but getting that into the loop and experimenting will take hours. I'd really love to find out what the problem is instead of just finding another workaround.


Thanks in advance for your help. It's greatly appreciated!!!

Mac Pro, macOS 10.14

Posted on Aug 13, 2020 3:58 AM

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Aug 28, 2020 12:42 PM in response to Glen Schuler

Did you try "Browse Other Backup Disks..."


Hold an Option key while clicking the TM icon in the Mac's menu bar. See if that shows the inaccessible backup.


I have no explanation for the fact your directly-connected backup disk has a .sparsebundle disk image for the MBA. My experience is—and has always been—the polar opposite of yours: directly connected disks have a single Backups.backupdb folder at their root level with subfolders within them, whereas network disks have folders at their root levels, with sparsebundles within them.


It's been that way since TM's inception on all my Macs everywhere. Whether that's as it should be is something I have never questioned. Needless to say I find it extremely odd that your experience is different.


One aspect of my backup strategy that may be relevant: every once in a while (perhaps every two or three years) I completely erase a backup disk, and start a new set on that disk. When I do that consider the fact that TM creates sparsebundles only on network disks, and Backups.backupdb folders only on local disks. That's one reason I've never questioned what it does—besides the fact it's never failed to perform as expected.

12 replies

Aug 13, 2020 11:36 AM in response to Glen Schuler

I followed the instructions on the support page.


I understand you followed Transfer Time Machine backups from one backup disk to another - Apple Support.


I recommend that you use Disk Utility's Restore function instead: Restore a disk using Disk Utility on Mac - Apple Support. It will create an exact duplicate and will finish in a few hours, at most.

Aug 24, 2020 1:21 AM in response to John Galt

The Restore function would work on the .sparsebundle, but it's the Backups.backupdb folder that is the problem. Here's what I've tried based on what you suggested:


First, I should mention that all Time Machine backups were always performed to drives that were directly connected to the Macs, not network drives.


I couldn't use the Restore function in Disk Utility on the Backups.backupdb, so I thought I'd see if it would create one from the folder that I could then restore to a .sparsebundle. Disk Utility did the same thing — eternal copying until the whole TB on the destination volume was full. This folder under 250 GB.


I tried creating an archive using Keka. It ran for over 24 hours just preparing it. It never even started writing a file, but it was working pretty hard the whole time.

https://yadi.sk/d/VnLNWrYWFpljnQ


I moved the MacBook Air"s .sparsebundle to a new volume, checked it, and deleted it off the old drive. That makes the room I want on the Time Machine volume for the Mac Pro's backup to grow on the volume where it was originally created and still resides.


The Mac Pro's Backups.backupdb is now the only thing left on that volume, but when I select it as the Time Machine volume, it no longer recognizes the Backups.backupdb as a backup of that machine. It tells me the last and most recent backups are "None". I was hoping it would just inherit the existing backup, since it is the same path on the same volume that it's always used, because when the .sparsebundle was there, it would at least ask me if I wanted to inherit the MBA's backup, or create a new one. Creating a new one added to the Backups.backupdb as expected each time. In other words, it wasn't creating a new backup, just using that folder each time to do incremental backups. 


I'm at a total loss as to how I can salvage that Backups.backupdb. I thought that maybe some softlinks were looping, but then I remembered I don't have softlinks setup on this machine, so that shouldn't be the problem.


Anyone have any other ideas I can try to get that Backups.backupdb copied onto a .sparsebundle and or working?

Aug 24, 2020 5:03 PM in response to Glen Schuler

I understand what you want to do—segregate two independent backups onto two separate devices—but can't get past my opinion that you're attempting to come up with an impractical solution. It's not as though what you want to do is impossible; it should certainly be possible but I just don't think it's worth the effort. The reason is that TM will only guarantee an absolute minimum of one and only one complete, restorable system backup, and anything more than that can (theoretically) disappear with no warning whatsoever, for a variety of reasons.


Restore is only useful and applicable to entire volumes so it won't help in that regard. I really, really suggest you simply obtain another Time Machine backup drive (which is what you want to do anyway) and start backing up one Mac to it. The other Mac can continue to back up to its existing backup drive, which at present contains backups of both. Nothing wrong with that. At some point however you may want to erase it completely, thereby eliminating the other one's backup history along with it. There are some valid reasons for doing that.


I didn't know Time Machine wasn't supposed to be able to backup more than one Mac per volume.


You can certainly do that. TM keeps them separate from one another and will never confuse the two. TM will back up as many Macs as you want to as many backup disks as you want. I think you'll agree with my opinion though that as far as backups go, simpler is better.

Aug 24, 2020 9:10 PM in response to John Galt

I truly appreciate the insights and want you to know I'm asking the following because I think I may have miscommunicated something, not to challenge your very sound recommendations, and, for the benefit of the community, I'd like to find a way to fix what should be working rather than just find a workaround.


I understand what you want to do—segregate two independent backups onto two separate devices—but can't get past my opinion that you're attempting to come up with an impractical solution. It's not as though what you want to do is impossible; it should certainly be possible but I just don't think it's worth the effort.
The other Mac can continue to back up to its existing backup drive, which at present contains backups of both.


This is where there may be a misunderstanding, since the solutions I'm trying are what you're suggesting except switched. (The other Mac is now happily backing up to a new volume and I want this one to continue using the old volume.) I wish the scenario you're describing with both Macs backing up to the same database was the case, but it's not. It would be no problem to simply fork the backups at this point if it was. They are completely different systems/backups—not even the same OS—and I need to continue to maintain separate backups. At present, the separate backups are on separate drives (after the successful move of the .sparsebundle).


I really, really suggest you simply obtain another Time Machine backup drive (which is what you want to do anyway) and start backing up one Mac to it. … I think you'll agree with my opinion though that as far as backups go, simpler is better.

Absolutely, which is why I've done exactly what you're suggesting! I just need the Mac Pro to recognize its Backup.backupdb.


At this point it's a very simple scenario. I have a Backup.backupdb that belongs to the Mac Pro on the same volume it has always used as a backup volume. There is nothing else on that volume. This backup is currently completely inaccessible. I can't get the Mac Pro to backup to it or restore from it, and I can't get it to copy to any destination.


There has simply got to be a way to get the thing to work.


Aug 24, 2020 10:31 PM in response to Glen Schuler

Now the drive is at least appearing in the Finder as a Time Machine drive, but it still does not recognize it as the backup for that machine and won't use it as a backup. Since Time Machine usually stores backups on network drives as Backup.backupdb files, what if I mount the volume over a network connection to another machine? I'd love to hear if anyone thinks this would be worth a shot because it's going to cost me a lot of time and physical pain to set that up.


I'm thinking at this point, it might be good to start another thread because the problem is now "How do I make my Mac recognize its Time Machine backup?" since I don't need to move the file, just have Time Machine use the thing!

Aug 25, 2020 8:10 AM in response to Glen Schuler

It's not you; perhaps I'm just dense. In the Finder, please open the Backups.backupdb folder. Does it contain one folder for your Mac Pro and another one for your MacBook Air?


Do not change any of its contents. Look but don't touch.


Since Time Machine usually stores backups on network drives as Backup.backupdb files,


It's the other way around. TM will create a Backups.backupdb folder for directly connected hard disk drives. For network volumes it creates a sparsebundle disk image for each Mac. However, to further confuse things, you can take a network drive with its sparsebundle disk image and connect it directly to a Mac, and TM will continue to work. I don't believe you can do the opposite though.


Although I got distracted by what I thought was a desire to separate backups into two devices the solution may be simple. On the Mac Pro, use Time Machine's Preferences to remove that backup using its "Add or Remove Backup Disk..." selection. Select that disk, click Remove, confirm the dialog that appears next, then Remove again. Then, repeat that action and select that same backup disk—the one you just removed. You may be presented with a dialog saying the "identity of the backup has changed" or words to that effect. Since you know that's the backup disk you want, confirm that's what you want to do. Then, initiate a manual backup.


I understand your desire to retain the Mac Pro's existing backups, and that action will not affect its backup history. TM will pick up where it left off. If I am wrong about your installation due to a misunderstanding on my part, the worst possible outcome is that TM will begin a new set of backups for the Mac Pro on that same disk, but its existing backups will be unaffected and can still be used to restore individual files, folders, apps, or entire systems.

Aug 28, 2020 6:44 AM in response to John Galt


It's not you; perhaps I'm just dense.

Not at all! I'm surprised you can follow my confusion! And I appreciate your patience.


In the Finder, please open the Backups.backupdb folder. Does it contain one folder for your Mac Pro and another one for your MacBook Air?

There is one folder with the name of the Mac Pro that was backing up to it. This has always been the case. There was never any folder other the MP's folder in the Backups.backupdb. I have never changed the contents of the folder or successfully moved it. The MBA only ever used the .sparsebundle. See below as to why this is odd.

not change any of its contents. Look but don't touch.

Was in the first Tiger Server class ever taught off the Apple Campus. I'm out of the loop since Forstall left, but after decades of keeping production departments at zero down time, I get it. Glad you mentioned it for the record!

Since Time Machine usually stores backups on network drives as Backup.backupdb files,

It's the other way around. TM will create a Backups.backupdb folder for directly connected hard disk drives. For network volumes it creates a sparsebundle disk image for each Mac. However, to further confuse things, you can take a network drive with its sparsebundle disk image and connect it directly to a Mac, and TM will continue to work. I don't believe you can do the opposite though.

I'm not trying to be contrary, but my experience has always been the opposite! The MacBook Air was the original computer to backup to that drive, which was connected directly to the Mac over Thunderbolt. It made a .sparsebundle. I can't find the article at the moment, but I'm nearly positive I read TM does the opposite of what you're saying. Even though what you describe makes way more sense, all of my TM backups have been local backups and were .sparsebundles. In fact, this was the first time I'd ever seen the backup database at the root level of the TM volume. I know this because I have to mount them all the time to delete the temp files when backups stall.

Although I got distracted by what I thought was a desire to separate backups into two devices the solution may be simple. On the Mac Pro, use Time Machine's Preferences to remove that backup using its "Add or Remove Backup Disk..." selection. Select that disk, click Remove, confirm the dialog that appears next, then Remove again. Then, repeat that action and select that same backup disk—the one you just removed. You may be presented with a dialog saying the "identity of the backup has changed" or words to that effect. Since you know that's the backup disk you want, confirm that's what you want to do. Then, initiate a manual backup.

I should have mentioned that I did this first thing, but it's just one of those things you do as a practice before you realize anything's wrong, right? I even went to the extreme of removing that as the backup, making sure it didn't have the TM icon for the drive, closed the Pref Pane, restarted, and then selected it as the backup. It still says the Latest and Oldest backups are "None".

I understand your desire to retain the Mac Pro's existing backups, and that action will not affect its backup history. TM will pick up where it left off. If I am wrong about your installation due to a misunderstanding on my part, the worst possible outcome is that TM will begin a new set of backups for the Mac Pro on that same disk, but its existing backups will be unaffected and can still be used to restore individual files, folders, apps, or entire systems.

Sadly, I can't get Time Machine to recognize it at all, so the backup history is not just effected, it's completely inaccessible! I can't get it to recognize it as a backup at all. Remember, it would still recognize the MP's backup until I removed the .sparsebundle that contains the MBA's backup. Now that the .backupdb folder is alone on the root level of that directory, and it's like nothing is there as far as the TM Pref Pane is concerned.


And yes, I could start a new backup, but my drive space is limited, and that's going to pretty much double the used space on that volume unless I delete the old backup. I'd really like to save it, and right now I have the extra drives and machines handy to shuffle stuff around however I need to.


Does that make the weirdness more clear?

Question marked as Helpful

Aug 28, 2020 12:42 PM in response to Glen Schuler

Did you try "Browse Other Backup Disks..."


Hold an Option key while clicking the TM icon in the Mac's menu bar. See if that shows the inaccessible backup.


I have no explanation for the fact your directly-connected backup disk has a .sparsebundle disk image for the MBA. My experience is—and has always been—the polar opposite of yours: directly connected disks have a single Backups.backupdb folder at their root level with subfolders within them, whereas network disks have folders at their root levels, with sparsebundles within them.


It's been that way since TM's inception on all my Macs everywhere. Whether that's as it should be is something I have never questioned. Needless to say I find it extremely odd that your experience is different.


One aspect of my backup strategy that may be relevant: every once in a while (perhaps every two or three years) I completely erase a backup disk, and start a new set on that disk. When I do that consider the fact that TM creates sparsebundles only on network disks, and Backups.backupdb folders only on local disks. That's one reason I've never questioned what it does—besides the fact it's never failed to perform as expected.

Aug 30, 2020 8:17 PM in response to John Galt


Hold an Option key while clicking the TM icon in the Mac's menu bar. See if that shows the inaccessible backup.

Yes! It shows up as an option with the correct name and enters Time Machine. I'll try the tmutil to get it to inherit the backup as you suggested in the other thread, since switching disks in the TM prefs interface isn't working.

I have no explanation for the fact your directly-connected backup disk has a .sparsebundle disk image for the MBA. My experience is—and has always been—the polar opposite of yours: directly connected disks have a single Backups.backupdb folder at their root level with subfolders within them, whereas network disks have folders at their root levels, with sparsebundles within them.

It's been that way since TM's inception on all my Macs everywhere. Whether that's as it should be is something I have never questioned. Needless to say I find it extremely odd that your experience is different.

One aspect of my backup strategy that may be relevant: every once in a while (perhaps every two or three years) I completely erase a backup disk, and start a new set on that disk. When I do that consider the fact that TM creates sparsebundles only on network disks, and Backups.backupdb folders only on local disks. That's one reason I've never questioned what it does—besides the fact it's never failed to perform as expected.

It is odd! And, like you, I'd never really given it a second thought until I had this issue.

Sep 27, 2020 3:51 AM in response to John Galt

Okay, I gave up on the old backup per the recommendations from people in this and the other related thread. I did a totally fresh backup on a totally new volume that was directly connected to my Mac Pro. It created the Backups.backupdb folder and another folder inside with the Mac's name. It was backing up/restoring fine.


Then, I went to copy the 190 GB file to a 700 GB partition. It does the same thing. It counts down as usual — 74 GB of 190 GB, 45 minutes remaining — until it reaches the end. Then they just keep growing together. Right now it's copying "201.5 GB of 201.5 GB About 5 seconds remaining" and that will just keep growing until the target volume is full.


This isn't just a snafu. It's a repeatable bug. I'll try the Restore option mentioned above, but this isn't an answer. I guess the only way to have a movable TM backup is to have it back up over a network connection first so it creates a .sparsebundle, then you have something that usable and movable.


I appreciate the help from the community, but I'm really disappointed that there's no Apple staff on their boards to help resolve issues like this. I've purchased easily between $10–20 million worth of their products/stock throughout my career. I know they are only the second biggest company in the world now, but I'd think that after 15 years they would have figured out how to make a backup system that works as advertised. When I wanted to replace a Solaris server with an Xserve, I had the head of their enterprise department at my desk the next week with a sample model to help us integrate it with our existing backup systems. Now that I'm just a regular consumer, my user experience doesn't seem to matter.


I just want to make a backup I can move! Is that so much to ask?

Sep 27, 2020 4:12 AM in response to Glen Schuler

Glen Schuler wrote:

Then, I went to copy the 190 GB file to a 700 GB partition. It does the same thing. It counts down as usual — 74 GB of 190 GB, 45 minutes remaining — until it reaches the end. Then they just keep growing together. Right now it's copying "201.5 GB of 201.5 GB About 5 seconds remaining" and that will just keep growing until the target volume is full.

I just looked at the destination folder in the Finder. The little progress pie next to the file shows about 1/16 progress, and the Finder says the file size is 91 GB. And when I check the destination volume in Disk Utility, it shows it as 100 empty. It doesn't even show the 91 GB used. Half an hour later, the destination file was the same, but the copy dialog was up to 255 GB. It hasn't actually copied anything at all!


So, I'm done with Apple's Backups.backupdb scheme and I'm gonna make my own .sparsebundle images for my Time Machine backups. This is ridiculous!

Sep 27, 2020 11:08 AM in response to Glen Schuler

Glen Schuler wrote:

This isn't just a snafu. It's a repeatable bug. I'll try the Restore option mentioned above, but this isn't an answer.


That answer works for me and everyone else who tried it. For one of many representative Discussions, read making back up disks.


I appreciate the help from the community, but I'm really disappointed that there's no Apple staff on their boards to help resolve issues like this.


As a user-to-user support resource, Apple's participation on this site regarding technical matters such as yours is limited. If someone is receiving constructive assistance as you have been, they don't intervene. If you want direct, authorized assistance from Apple, use the Contact Support link above.


I just want to make a backup I can move! Is that so much to ask?


No, but your question has been answered multiple times. The fact you don't like the answer doesn't change the answer.

Finder never finishes copying Time Machine backup to different drive

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