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Time Machine quoting 80 hours to restore a 3.4TB time machine backup from NAS Why so slow?

My issue

I just got it back from being serviced and I am trying to restore my Mac from my Time Machine backup which is on my NAS. It is quoting 80 hours to restore the Time Machine Backup and it makes no sense as my router is a Gigabit router. The mac is connected by cable to the router as it the NAS. the hardware is as follows below


Hardware

2019 16" Macbook Pro Catalina with 8TB drive about 3.41TB are used.

Using Belkin USB-C to Ethernet Adapter connected to Cat 7 cable to router

Router Asus RT-AC3100 Gigabit

NAS Western Digital DL4100 w gigabit network port connected via Cat 6 ethernet cable


I originally had Jumbo frames off and it showed over 120 hours to restore!


I enabled Jumbo Frames on the router, no size setting it is just on or off

I enabled Jumbo Frames on the DL4100 and set it for 4000


It has reduced it to 80 hours but this is still ridiculously slow. Looking at the NAS its reporting an average network speed of about 4Mbps I am not even getting 10Mbps or 100Mbps! and this is supposed to be 1000Mbps.

MacBook Pro 16″, 10.15

Posted on Oct 17, 2020 10:38 AM

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Question marked as Best reply

Posted on Oct 19, 2020 10:05 AM

TheBouncer wrote:

I looked at several sites and took the lower numbers some tests are showing 150 read 145 write.

The only test that matters is the one that you run on your devices. Time Machine does a lot of extra file comparisons and other work. But you can easily connect to your NAS over standard networking and transfer a very large files. That’s your maximum transfer rate. I can virtually guarantee that it won’t get close to 150 MB/s.

The very first initial full backup would probably take weeks, but once the full backup was done it would be incremental backups from that point forward. However now I see the error in that idea as that backup would contain the Time Machine Backup which is constantly changing and would not be able to be incrementally backed up. So going forward It seems the local drive like you suggested would be best for time machine and then have a separate cloud backup of data only, not Time machine. That way incremental backups would work.

I mentioned this above. Time Machine is going to use a file structure called a “sparse bundle”. This stores a disk image using many small files. When you update a small part of the virtual disk, only the files that contain that data are made dirty and will need to be updated. It is still an incremental backup, as far as networking goes. There is extra work that the computer needs to do in order to present all of those small files as if they were one disk. But the network data transfers are so slow that your computer has plenty of time to do any of that extra disk virtualization work.

Would a cloning software such as Clonezilla or Carbon Copy Cloner be a better choice than time machine ? Would it be a smaller faster restore using these ?

This is not a Time Machine vs. 3rd party question. A network operations are slow. There is no way around that. 3rd party tools are currently unable to create a bootable restore volume. But then, restoring to a bootable system with Time Machine over a network is going to be a challenge too.


This is a problem that is 100% solved using Time Machine and a little money. Problems like that are not problems.


Having a networked backup does offer some conveniences. For example, if you had a very large NAS and many Macs with a relatively small amount of storage, it can be a very convenient way to keep all machines backed up all the time. This is not a substitute for a local backup. It is a convenience for files that are accidentally deleted or recent files that weren’t backed-up locally. Because it is networked, it can connect and run whenever it wants. Local backups always have to be plugged in first. People who are always on the go might miss a few days and eventually get reminded after 10. That is not a problem for network backups. I just wouldn’t recommend a network backup as the only backup for your computer that has a very large amount of storage.


It’s too late now, but if you ever did need to take your computer in for service again, assuming they didn’t replace or erase the hard drive entirely, you could restore your system in seconds using a local snapshot. But if you are getting the screen replaced, or the keyboard replaced (both popular repairs in recent years) try the local snapshot first. Only restore from Time Machine if the local snapshot isn’t possible.

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11 replies
Question marked as Best reply

Oct 19, 2020 10:05 AM in response to TheBouncer

TheBouncer wrote:

I looked at several sites and took the lower numbers some tests are showing 150 read 145 write.

The only test that matters is the one that you run on your devices. Time Machine does a lot of extra file comparisons and other work. But you can easily connect to your NAS over standard networking and transfer a very large files. That’s your maximum transfer rate. I can virtually guarantee that it won’t get close to 150 MB/s.

The very first initial full backup would probably take weeks, but once the full backup was done it would be incremental backups from that point forward. However now I see the error in that idea as that backup would contain the Time Machine Backup which is constantly changing and would not be able to be incrementally backed up. So going forward It seems the local drive like you suggested would be best for time machine and then have a separate cloud backup of data only, not Time machine. That way incremental backups would work.

I mentioned this above. Time Machine is going to use a file structure called a “sparse bundle”. This stores a disk image using many small files. When you update a small part of the virtual disk, only the files that contain that data are made dirty and will need to be updated. It is still an incremental backup, as far as networking goes. There is extra work that the computer needs to do in order to present all of those small files as if they were one disk. But the network data transfers are so slow that your computer has plenty of time to do any of that extra disk virtualization work.

Would a cloning software such as Clonezilla or Carbon Copy Cloner be a better choice than time machine ? Would it be a smaller faster restore using these ?

This is not a Time Machine vs. 3rd party question. A network operations are slow. There is no way around that. 3rd party tools are currently unable to create a bootable restore volume. But then, restoring to a bootable system with Time Machine over a network is going to be a challenge too.


This is a problem that is 100% solved using Time Machine and a little money. Problems like that are not problems.


Having a networked backup does offer some conveniences. For example, if you had a very large NAS and many Macs with a relatively small amount of storage, it can be a very convenient way to keep all machines backed up all the time. This is not a substitute for a local backup. It is a convenience for files that are accidentally deleted or recent files that weren’t backed-up locally. Because it is networked, it can connect and run whenever it wants. Local backups always have to be plugged in first. People who are always on the go might miss a few days and eventually get reminded after 10. That is not a problem for network backups. I just wouldn’t recommend a network backup as the only backup for your computer that has a very large amount of storage.


It’s too late now, but if you ever did need to take your computer in for service again, assuming they didn’t replace or erase the hard drive entirely, you could restore your system in seconds using a local snapshot. But if you are getting the screen replaced, or the keyboard replaced (both popular repairs in recent years) try the local snapshot first. Only restore from Time Machine if the local snapshot isn’t possible.

Oct 17, 2020 11:09 PM in response to TheBouncer

Maybe one of the hard drives in the NAS is beginning to fail. Does the NAS have any way of checking the health of the hard drives using the drive's SMART monitoring feature? Does the NAS have an option to check its file system for errors?


I don't use TM so I'm not sure how fast it should be capable of restoring a backup. Maybe TM has a lot of processing that needs to be done to pull the correct files for a particular backup?


Do you use this NAS for other things or just a TM backup? If you use it for other things how fast is the transfer rates to and from the NAS?


Try a PRAM reset on your Mac.


Have you rebooted the NAS?


Edit: Just realized you are trying to restore 3.4TB? This can easily take a day or more.

Oct 18, 2020 11:13 AM in response to HWTech

HWTech wrote:

Maybe one of the hard drives in the NAS is beginning to fail. Does the NAS have any way of checking the health of the hard drives using the drive's SMART monitoring feature? Does the NAS have an option to check its file system for errors?

I don't use TM so I'm not sure how fast it should be capable of restoring a backup. Maybe TM has a lot of processing that needs to be done to pull the correct files for a particular backup?

Do you use this NAS for other things or just a TM backup? If you use it for other things how fast is the transfer rates to and from the NAS?

Try a PRAM reset on your Mac.

Have you rebooted the NAS?

Edit: Just realized you are trying to restore 3.4TB? This can easily take a day or more.

The Drives in the NAS all report no errors using SMART.


It has finished restoring the Mac so it ended up taking about 17 hours total. It sped up after the first hour or two.

Oct 17, 2020 4:37 PM in response to Barney-15E

I tried some other things.


I temporarily redid my network so that just the WD DL4100 NAS and the Macbook Pro were on the switch using CAT 6 cables to each device, I then connected the switch to the router.


I tried two different Gigabit routers a TrendNet 8 port TEG-S80g Gigabit switch and a 5 port Netgear Gigabit Switch.


With both switches I could not achieve over 70Mbps bursts for 1 minute or less and then it drops to 4Mbps for several minutes then bursts to 10 - 40Mbps and then drops again for several minutes.


I tried multiple settings on the WD DL4100:

connecting both ethernet cards in the NAS to the switch with link aggregation= Worse performance.

Tried different settings on link aggregation and each setting did not improve performance.

I tried different Jumbo Frame settings but they all resulted in worse performance.



Went back to single Cable plugged in, link aggregation turned off and Jumbo Frame off this resulted in the best performance. But still not what I would expect. The Trendnet Router performed better than the Netgear. Full Green lights are on for the network connection indicating 1000Mbps connectivity and support but yet I am not getting even 100mb speeds. The odd thing is the NAS monitoring only shows up to 130Mbps which makes no sense if it supports gigabit ethernet. Seems WD may not be accurately representing the true speed of the DL4100

Oct 17, 2020 5:34 PM in response to TheBouncer

Gigabit ethernet is just theoretical. It is always going to be slower than that. Plus, those are bits, You have to divide by 8 to get megabytes per second. If you do that, you get 125 MB/s. So then I have to ask how fast the hard drive is in that NAS. NAS hard drives can be very slow.


I wouldn't recommend relying on a NAS for your only backup, especially on a 8 TB drive.

Oct 17, 2020 6:27 PM in response to etresoft

The NAS is 4x4TB Drives (16TB) configured RAID 5 (12TB usable)


The Drives are Western Digital Red Drives model WD40EFRX-68WT0N0

Interface: SATA 6 Gb/s

read speeds up to 115 MB/s, and write speeds up to 107 MB/s.


It appears the rotational speed is 5400 so this explains some of the speed issues, I thought they were at least 7200 if not 10,000RPM



etresoft wrote:

Gigabit ethernet is just theoretical. It is always going to be slower than that. Plus, those are bits, You have to divide by 8 to get megabytes per second. If you do that, you get 125 MB/s. So then I have to ask how fast the hard drive is in that NAS. NAS hard drives can be very slow.

I wouldn't recommend relying on a NAS for your only backup, especially on a 8 TB drive.


What else would you suggest ? A large external drive? or another NAS or Server with RAID 6 (double parity) ? I am not sure what to do I just know I cannot lose my data.


The original idea was to backup Time Machine to the NAS and then have the NAS backed up to a Cloud Storage provider but I am still trying to consolidate and remove files and shrink the overall size being used. I had 4 computers , 2 Windows, 2 Macs and I am trying to get back down to 2 (all mac)

Oct 18, 2020 8:22 AM in response to TheBouncer

FWIW, I was messing around with my Mac trying to install

Linux and messed some step up and had to do wipe and restore

from Time Machine (didn't do a clone, DOH!).


With just 280GB to restore, Time Machine took about

5 hours to restore from a Thunderbolt connected 7200 RPM

drive to an SSD. Based on that, 80 hours does not seem to be

out of the question and usually the more data and the longer

Time Machine has been backing it takes even longer especially

with lots of little files with lots of revisions as Time Machine needs

to sort all that out.


One reason I personally have a dislike for massive internal storage and divide

my data among several smaller drives with individual backups of each.


Oct 18, 2020 11:16 AM in response to woodmeister50

woodmeister50 wrote:

FWIW, I was messing around with my Mac trying to install
Linux and messed some step up and had to do wipe and restore
from Time Machine (didn't do a clone, DOH!).

With just 280GB to restore, Time Machine took about
5 hours to restore from a Thunderbolt connected 7200 RPM
drive to an SSD. Based on that, 80 hours does not seem to be
out of the question and usually the more data and the longer
Time Machine has been backing it takes even longer especially
with lots of little files with lots of revisions as Time Machine needs
to sort all that out.

One reason I personally have a dislike for massive internal storage and divide
my data among several smaller drives with individual backups of each.

I would figure using Thunderbolt would be faster. I did get it restored finally it was about 17 hours so it appears Time Machine is very inaccurate in its initial estimates.

Oct 18, 2020 3:00 PM in response to TheBouncer

TheBouncer wrote:

read speeds up to 115 MB/s, and write speeds up to 107 MB/s.

Says who? It looks like those are SMR drives that should be avoided. See https://nascompares.com/2020/04/16/your-wd-red-nas-hard-drives-might-be-using-smr-what-you-need-to-know/

What else would you suggest ? A large external drive? or another NAS or Server with RAID 6 (double parity) ? I am not sure what to do I just know I cannot lose my data.

It's not the drive, it's the interface. A NAS uses the network which is going to be really, really slow. Plus, the Time Machine volume on the network drive is a funky sparse bundle format because that isn't a native Mac. So in addition to slow network speeds, you are reading and writing from a disk image made up of lots of files rather than a native file system. And all of this is hosted on a foreign operating system, foreign file system, and encoded using either SMB or AFP. NAS devices are notorious for having flaky AFP and SMB implementations, at least as far as macOS is concerned.


I would recommend an external Thunderbolt hard drive. You would have to use a RAID to backup a drive that big. That's not going to be cheap. I suggest OWC for those drives: https://macsales.com


The original idea was to backup Time Machine to the NAS and then have the NAS backed up to a Cloud Storage provider but I am still trying to consolidate and remove files and shrink the overall size being used. I had 4 computers , 2 Windows, 2 Macs and I am trying to get back down to 2 (all mac)

How would you ever get 3.4 TB into the cloud? 80 hours is nothing!


I think this would be your best option for backup: https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/TB3RSDK12T/

Oct 18, 2020 6:35 PM in response to etresoft

Says who? It looks like those are SMR drives that should be avoided. See https://nascompares.com/2020/04/16/your-wd-red-nas-hard-drives-might-be-using-smr-what-you-need-to-know/


I looked at several sites and took the lower numbers some tests are showing 150 read 145 write.


I did not know about SMR. And yes it does look like the drive has it.


How would you ever get 3.4 TB into the cloud? 80 hours is nothing!


The very first initial full backup would probably take weeks, but once the full backup was done it would be incremental backups from that point forward. However now I see the error in that idea as that backup would contain the Time Machine Backup which is constantly changing and would not be able to be incrementally backed up. So going forward It seems the local drive like you suggested would be best for time machine and then have a separate cloud backup of data only, not Time machine. That way incremental backups would work.


Would a cloning software such as Clonezilla or Carbon Copy Cloner be a better choice than time machine ? Would it be a smaller faster restore using these ?

Time Machine quoting 80 hours to restore a 3.4TB time machine backup from NAS Why so slow?

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