Choosing Correct Video Rate With Clips of Various FPS?

Hello, I've downloaded 34 stock video clips - most of which are 1920 by 1080. However, when viewing the FPS (via QuickTime) for each clip, I'm seeing a wide variety of frames per second:


  • 1 clip at 23.98
  • 2 clips at 24
  • 18 clips at 25
  • 8 clips at 29.97
  • 3 clips at 30
  • 2 clips at 50


Now, when I set up my project initially, I used the automatic option ("Set based on first video clip"). This resulted in a project with these settings:


Video format = 1080p HD

Video resolution = 1920 x 1080

Video rate = 50p


The first two are what I'm looking for, but I'm not sure what to choose for video rate. I assume that 50 is not the best option here ... But for example, should I choose the lowest frame rate (23.98), the most common (25), or the one that seems closest to the middle (29.97)?


After viewing this article (https://larryjordan.com/articles/fcp-x-conform-different-video-frame-rates/), I see this:


ALWAYS set the frame rate to match your final deliverable before editing any clips into the project. If you don’t know the frame rate of your final deliverable, set the frame rate to match the majority of your media.


So based on this, it sounds like I should choose 25 for "Video rate". But I'm open to other suggestions if anyone would like to weigh in on this...


Also, I see this sentence:


Changing the frame rate of a project after you have edited clips into it is a big deal, because it will change the location of all your existing edit points. In most cases, this means you will need to reedit everything you’ve already edited.


Which then begs the question of whether I should actually start over before going any further? Thus far I just have all the clips in the timeline in the order I want, and adjusted the clip lengths so they are approximately the right length for this video ...


I don't mind starting over if that would be the best. But if it's not a big deal to just change the project frame rate to something else, and then re-adjust the clips' start and end points afterward, I'd be fine with that too.


I should also note that after watching this (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FMdEmFJM46I), it appears the best approach after choosing a frame rate is to use Rate Conform with "Optical Flow". So I think that part is clear enough, it's just these questions about frame rates, etc. that are vexing me.


I'm trying to make a lyric music video for YouTube, and want the results to be as good as possible ... so any advice will be appreciated!

Posted on Dec 20, 2020 10:38 PM

Reply
9 replies

Dec 20, 2020 11:49 PM in response to bjorkj02

"Final deliverable" is where you intend to have your video displayed. I'll differ with Mr. Jordan's recommendation by saying: if you haven't been explicitly assigned a specific frame rate to use — USE 30! Don't worry about trying to figure out the majority of the clip frame rates.


The youtube video about conforming video in FCPX is ridiculous... (sorry). Anyone still using fractional frame rate projects are idi... um... out of touch. There is no longer any purpose whatsoever in using fractional frame rates. Analog television is dead as a doornail and has been for a decade. [Same can be said for interlacing...] The reasons to use fractional frame rates simply do not exist anymore and using them just creates a multitude of headaches (including synchronization issues and timecode "confusion" [timecode is not time]). FCPX is very adept at conforming all frame rates without optical flow.


YouTube will take about anything but they recommend 30fps. If YouTube is your destination, consider yourself assigned. You do not want to try to upload anything that might cause YouTube to re-encode your source video with their codecs.


As for audio: keep all your audio sources consistent (48kHz sampling rate or higher - constant bit rate [CBR] - typically WAV or AIF - not MP4!!)

Dec 22, 2020 5:14 AM in response to bjorkj02

You can use any of these frame rates if you want to but you can't or shouldn't just combine different frame rates willy nilly. If you are using nothing but stock footage you might, for instance, find a wonderful clip at 30fps and build a story around that. In that case you should probably stick with only footage done at 30fps and not drop any other footage in with different fps. You might find something at 25fps that you like and in that case you could also use any 50fps footage because you won't lose any frames when it is played since 50 is a multiple of 25. Well you would lose some but it would probably not be noticeable. If you have a project that is set at 30fps and put in some footage that is 50fps it will be forced to drop frames because each second has too many frames. Yes, you can use optical flow to try to make things better but as Apple says in one of their docs, "This setting usually provides the greatest reduction in visual stuttering and artifacts. " That is to say, reduction of stuttering, not necessarily elimination. If you're just doing some little home movie thing it's really not a big deal. It's your movie but depending on how long the clip is and how many times you are tossing in clips to a timeline that does not match the fps of the clips the results could vary from hardly noticeable to horrible. You goal should always be to match the timeline to the clip in terms of fps. If you do choose to add a clip to a timeline that doesn't match its' fps, use optical flow, then render the clip and view the results to see if they are acceptable. In your above example, if all the clips you listed were of equal length and desirability you would want to use a timeline of 25fps so all of those clips and the 50fps clips could be used without lost frames that would cause problems. If, however there was a 20minute clip you liked that was 29.97 and everything else were short additions it might be better to make a project at 29.97. Bottom line is your project can only end up at some chosen fps and whatever clips in that timeline that don't match it are potentially something of an issue in terms of how the lack of matching frame rates are dealt up by the attempt to "fake" them via optical flow which is never perfect. The more fast motion involved the worse the problem is. If your non-matching clip is a static shot of a sunset then it may be entirely fine with no problem but if it's a fencing match then you might have many very noticeable blips in the video even when using optical flow.

Dec 23, 2020 12:34 AM in response to bjorkj02

Don't be confused. It is NEVER better to resort to fractional frame rates. Analog TV officially ceased on June 12, 2009. Analog is the only reason to use fractional frame rates. If it doesn't exist anymore, why would you!


If you need to understand where fractional frame rates actually come from, watch this video: Why is TV 29.97 frames per second?


It's one of the best explanations I've seen (and it beats digging through various documentations for it which most people won't do anymore.)


Convention is a poor excuse.


Dec 21, 2020 8:53 PM in response to fox_m

Thanks so much for the reply, fox_m - that's super helpful.


First, it's good to see it stated explicitly that since I'm creating for YouTube, I should use 30 FPS. Perfectly clear.


Also, it's great to know I don't have to worry about conforming the various frame rates like that YouTube video suggests. Although considering that video is 4 years old, I suppose it makes sense that it's out of date now ...


As a side note, I've made a decent number of music videos with stock clips in the (recent) past, and always seemed to have good results when using "Set based on first video clip". However, this has always yielded a FPS of either 29.97 or 30, which seemed like common numbers ... so I never looked into it further.


In addition, knowing that FCP takes care of differing frame rates on its own is a relief retroactively, since I've never taken such further action in the past (when I'm sure there were different rates sprinkled through the clips) ...


So yeah, I think I can move forward with this video now, secure in the knowledge that I'm handling these fundamental issues correctly and not making any obvious errors!


Cheers,

Jim

Dec 24, 2020 1:02 PM in response to fox_m

D-word (this site is rated G+++)! Where were you when I had this question about 29.97 vs. 30 fps? I ended up using 29.97, as I thought I'd need to make a DVD or Blu-ray from it. Well, that didn't happen, and it doesn't even seem to matter for that. I thought it was safer to go with 29.97 anyway.


Well, I guess you just missed my post.


So in the future can I just run the resultant .mov file through Compressor to convert it to 30 fps, should the need arise? Seems to me, based on the Compressor "user guide", the only side effect would be that the music would run at 1.001x speed. Or would the need ever arise to begin with? (I'll use 30 fps henceforth.) TIA.

Dec 24, 2020 3:16 PM in response to betaneptune

Whether I missed it may be dependent on when you asked it. I was involved in a lot of work the last year or so to make precision timed effects. I know how to make them for fractional frame rates but that's what got me started asking: why the H* am I doing this??? I could not come up with a logical reason. So I finally woke up and realized that using fractional frame rates is simply no longer a logical choice. My favorite part of the video I linked is NTSC: Not the smartest choice.


However, if you've already "baked" a video in 29.97, just leave it as it is. Once you complete a project, it's just "archive". Go forward, not backward!


I actually do not use Compressor and haven't since Final Cut Studio days, so I cannot tell you if Compressor is a worthwhile effort. I don't see where audio would go out of sync once it's part of the actual published video file... and it won't hurt to try.

Dec 23, 2020 3:21 PM in response to fox_m

Thanks for your input, digibudII, and for fox_m's further comment! It seems to me that you're both giving sound advice, and now I'm trying to find the common ground between them....


To clarify just a bit more, there are no predominant clips in this project. Each clip is fairly short (between 7 - 14 seconds), and they simply line up next to each other in the timeline (with the audio underneath). As such, I don't have any particular clip to build around.


Also, since my budget-conscious approach involves finding these clips on sites like Pixabay and Pexels, it's pretty much inevitable that I'm going to have differing FPS values in a project. It therefore behooves me to have a solid approach for this...


So to combine your answers, I'm thinking of guidelines as follows:


  • If the video's destination is YouTube, choose 30 FPS in the project settings
  • Try to have as many clips matching 30 FPS as possible, while allowing that some variation may be inevitable
  • If there are clips with a FPS ≠ 30, then make sure that there are no undesirable artifacts from FCP needing to drop (or add) frames. If there is such an issue, try to fix it via Rate Conform with "Optical Flow".


I should note that none of these particular clips have fast-moving action, and as I'm viewing right now I'm not seeing any weird artifacts on playback. To me, that reinforces fox_m's assertion that FCP handles clips with differing FPS very well in 2020 without needing Rate Conform.


But I do also understand what digibudII is saying in terms of best practices and how differing frame rates *can* still be an issue,. So I will definitely keep my eye on this video -- and with future videos -- for any visible issues.


Hopefully the above guidelines have successfully synthesized these replies, and definitely let me know if there should be any changes to anything I'm saying here.

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Choosing Correct Video Rate With Clips of Various FPS?

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