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Question: Mac mini M1 - Not able to mount LaCie 5Big Thunderbolt storage

Hello all,


Since 1.5 weeks I am working with apple to solve my above issue. I am unable to mount the LaCie 5Big TB2 storage to my Mac mini M1. TB3 drives are find. It seems the Big Sur 11.1 does not allow that the required driver will be authorized. As we know from Catalina we need to check the Marvel and LaCie Ltd driver in the security options. When I start the latest LaCie LRM manager (v2.9) it says "Install Software" and there it stops.


The System Report is able to detect the TB2 drive, but the system is not able to mount.


Apple has in the meantime performed the system analysis and is looking into the files.


The question is, is anyone else experiencing this issue? If there are more problems, we can put this issue up in the priority list of bug fixes.

Posted on Dec 23, 2020 5:29 AM

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Writing this on Feb 15th - 2021. I have been in exactly the same situation since mid-Nov 2020 when I got my M1 (M1 MM, Big Sur 11.2; correct apple adapter for TB 2<-->3). I have opened multiple tickets with Lacie; I actually spoke to a level 1 support tech @Lacie about it who promised me a level II tech would call - and has not in 3 weeks and I've filed more tickets. So, I too, can confirm that LaCie's support is a mess and is totally un-responsive. The ONLY reason I'm getting by is that I have it attached to my MacPro and can access it via networking - but, of course a little slower.


jc

Posted on Feb 15, 2021 7:51 AM

Question marked as Helpful

Apr 8, 2021 7:21 PM in response to motegi In response to motegi

April 8 - 2021. 5 few days ago I received a notice that LaCie had issued an update to the LaCie RAID manger that would work under Big Sur 11.2.3. Today, April 8th, I set aside the afternoon to download and install the RAID driver and physically move my 5BIG from my Intel Mac Pro 6,1 (2013) Thunderbolt-2 to my Mac Mini M1 (16GB ram/2TB storage). So this is LaCie Raid Manager 2.9.3.207. This time the install under Big Sur went fine - I had to approve the software's source with Privacy as expected and this time it went okay. The drive was recognized and I could read and write to it. However, it's performance is seriously impacted. On my Intel MacPro (TrashCan 6,1 Thunderbolt 2) I get at least, 400/400 MB/sec by any measure (transfer a really big video file and stopwatch it, Blackmagic, etc) - but on moving the drive to the M1 my speeds are roughly write 55MB/sec; read 270 MB/sec...there is some variability but this is the essence of it - not much better than a USB2 drive and on par with a FW 800.


So this is a serious problem. This drive, while readable, is useless for ay serious photographic/video work.

I spent some hours on the phone with tech support today and they do not have an answer for this. I swapped every TB2 cable and Apple adapter I have* - so it's not a cable or adapter issue. It's a driver issue - entangled with caches/buffers/optimization and all that.


*I have 3 Apple TB 2<-->3 dongles I have 2M and half-metre cables from different manufacturers - I counter-swapped, and all these work fine on the TrashCan - and when connected on the clearest/simplest path on the M1 Mac - much less performance.


Two questions


  1. what numbers are you seeing*
  2. How do we mount a claim on this.


*the reason I am asking this is if your 5Big (whatever) is performing differently than mine - I have done 2 failed drive swaps over the years and although I have replaced with IronWolf, maybe I have introduced something incompatible or less optimized. Nonetheless, the LaCie Techs cannot discern this and the drive currently does do 400+/400+ on the Intel and 55/270 on the M1.


I do not relish dumping this drive system - but it is useless on the new future of Macs. The LaCie tech sort-of admitted to this but has no solution and so we must apply some pressure.


Nest Steps. BTW - I am sure this applies to 6Big and 12Big as well....so this is not a small community that has had their hardware back-watered very prematurely.


jc - April 8-2021

Apr 8, 2021 7:21 PM

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Apr 9, 2021 2:36 AM in response to Jimcamel In response to Jimcamel

Thank for the update Jim. Appreciated. I have had no communication whatsoever from LaCie. This really concerns me.


Over the weekend I will install the new driver and see how it goes. I am dependent on the drives as this my bread and butter, so performance is key. I am running IronWolf disks in My LaCie Big5


I have noticed that the speed I can get on m LaCie Big2 Dock over TB3 is also not very fast. I also am experiencing that connection between the Mac mini M1 and the LaCie Big2 Dock is in sleeping mode when I am not accessing the system, although I am working on my Mac mini M1. When I need to retrieve a file, I get the spinning wheel! When I run BlackMagic Disk Speed Test - I am getting access speeds of about 128MB/s! both for 1GB and 5GB samples.


My guess is, is that Apple has a communication issue on the TB3 ports! I think it is time to contact APPLE again to push them solve the problems we have. I will re-open my case with Apple --- It is still open, but apple is very quiet. Not a good sign!


Overall the performance to Mac mini M1 is ok....but not stunning. In FCPx I am getting drop frames in 1080p replays.


The MotionVFX plugins run ok, but the M1 has an issue to play them smoothly.


All LaCie drives which needs the LaCie Raid Manager are effected!


I will keep you posted.


Cheers


Hendrik



Apr 9, 2021 2:36 AM

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Apr 12, 2021 7:01 AM in response to Jimcamel In response to Jimcamel

Hi Jim,


Thank you for reaching out. No I was not able to upgrade to the latest LaCie RM. I tried to upgrade MacOS to 11.2.3 but it DOES NOT install the latest Mac OS version. I was on the phone with apple for 2 hours and they have no solution other than reinstall MacOS. This is nightmare. I had a scheduled call with Apple for today - 10am CET but they did not call me so I called them. They promised after this call that they will call me again at 3:15pm CET today.... you can guess.


I am now writing an email to Tim Cooke. I am done with the crappy apple support.


I checked performance on the Big5 with Catalina (Mac Pro 2013) about 700MB/s.


Performance on the Mac mini M1 to my Big2 Dock over TB3 - 132MB/s


Final Cut is slooooooow


Not sure what to do next, but I think we may want to open a "Thread" in order to collect people around to globe to unite and put apple under pressure. They guys I spoke with today they blame the third party providers. This is a mess with the new M1 architecture!


thoughts?


Cheers,


Hendrik



Apr 12, 2021 7:01 AM

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Apr 12, 2021 9:06 AM in response to Jimcamel In response to Jimcamel

Hi Jim,


I just reinstalled MacOS - Internet recovery - and installed the LCRM - .307 release. Blackmagic says this.


I am sure there is an I/O issue on the M1 bus!


As I mentioned this morning..... Intel... Big5 performance 700MB/s!


I wrote Tim Cook! :-) Curious to see when or who responds.


Lets keep this ball going


  • hendrik

Apr 12, 2021 9:06 AM

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Apr 12, 2021 9:56 AM in response to NordicLightPhoto In response to NordicLightPhoto

Hi Hendrik - just checking - you said you installed ".307" - but the '3's a typo-right ??? - did you mean ".207" ???. But if you did install a .307 then, man, I'm not installing THAT - your BlackMagic 36MB/sec is even worse than my 55 ! Sorry, I need an emoji here ...


I did raise some of these issues with "The Constant Geekery Podcast" (Britain - several hundred subscribers).... and they discussed the whole issue of RAID performance on the M1's for about 10 minutes today (Apr 12). That was my first effort at exposing this to a wider audience....I may chime in on a few other YouTube channels and see if we can learn more about what people are seeing out there; and what people are doing with effectively moth-balled 5Big, 6Big and 12Big RAID systems.


And, LaCie sent me a followup on my case this morning - I will reply to that and with a letter to my "case contact" outlining my views as to how dismal this is, that more transparency is needed from LaCie as well as a thorough public acknowledgement of the problem accompanied with a commitment to followup and fix it.


6 or 7 year old industrial hardware ought not to be considered obsolete....that it works on Intel but not on Apple Silicon should be a red flag; hopefully it is fixable with a software or firmware update.


So, on my side I'm going to be working to try and spread the word more and hopefully that will provide some incentive to LaCie to work with Apple to resolve it.


jc

Apr 12, 2021 9:56 AM

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Apr 13, 2021 1:17 AM in response to Jimcamel In response to Jimcamel

Good morning Jim,


I checked the LCRM version: It is the 207 version. So a type error. I was probable had too much yesterday of Apple after speaking 3 hours with them and not moving one step forward. Too many unknowledgeable people sitting there, who only can say....do a reinstall. Perhaps this works for a regular user, but not when you run a business.


I think that it is time that this issue need a much wider audience. Apple support is now - every time you log a case - finger pointing - It are the third party providers / partners who are the issue. I use MotionVFX plugins for my work. When FCPx does not run smoothly, Apple support says....it is MotionVFX's problem. On the other hand they say - Motion is one of the best apple products and people can build great templates and plugins with it. But they says, once you have build a plugin with this tool, and there are issues, the third party is the issue. This shows, that apple has severe issues with Big Sur! They are overwhelmed with the number of big issues they have.


LaCie recommends users of BIG12 towers NOT to install the new driver on ARM chips. Apparently it can cause crashes which can loose to los of data.


Apple removed all RAID vendors from their website, besides Promise and LaCie 2Big dock. For me it seems that apple is not willing to make this work. Why? Apple is dependent on the manufactures for hard drives and raid systems. If they don't make it work it will hit the "business use" of apple products.


I am not sure how best we reach a wider audience, but we need to start pushing the issues with the ARM chips. I don't understand why the press is not picking up on this. Perhaps we should use channels like iMore or 9to5macs to support the case??


I am willing to help!


Cheers,


  • Hendrik





Apr 13, 2021 1:17 AM

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Apr 13, 2021 7:11 AM in response to NordicLightPhoto In response to NordicLightPhoto

g'morning, Hendrik


Yesterday I wrote a formal letter to my case contact at LaCie requesting it be forwarded to their management. It included a technical case update as well as strategic positioning; a request for more transparency on the issue; a commitment to fix it and direct contact to me from their senior technical support management.


My situation was also featured on "The Constant Geekery Podcast" out of Britain, yesterday. It was discussed; This podcast has only about 1000 subscribers and it's worth noting that there wasn't much feedback from them - despite they're being people keenly interested in new technology, review, etc.


And I reviewed as much as I could, posts on the Internet regarding this issue with LaCie. There was a small flurry of activity early on - but most of the posts have been dormant since December. In any event, the audience is pretty small.


Which leads me to conclude there isn't much interest in this topic and the number of people affected now is relatively small. Maybe it will grow this year as M1's or their successors become the dominant strain of Macs. Nonetheless, LaCie is aware of it and the likely implications.


For even this thread ... right now ... is it just you and me ?


While we could work on mounting a wider awareness campaign, I am thinking it won't amount to much. If we did, my approach would be to contact 9-5 as you suggest and other YouTube channels (I have several in mind) ..... I can certainly adapt my narrative to a few paragraphs. As a question, I'd be asking for some speed reporting feedback since the connectivity issue is resolved (see my SoftRaid comment at the end, however...)


However, for now I'd like to see how far I get with LaCie - a sugar as compared to a vinegar approach. There are some Apple implications - but my experience with both the LaCie and SoftRaid issues is that it IS up to the 3rd parties to fix the problem with their software, working in conjunction with Apple to ensure the right driver API's are exposed on MacOS to make this work. All these players, in the end, have a vested interest in making this work. I own lots of LaCie products, my 5Big is the most expensive, though....and if I have to look elsewhere to fix this and LaCie hasn't come to the table, then the implications of THAT are pretty clear. Anybody else with LaCie RAID storage is eventually going to experience this - although as I've said, the problem is not well known.


I'd like to wait a week and judge LaCie's response.


My 5Big is attached to my MM M1 - it's 5 drives (5 x 4TB, ea) forming one RAID 5 group - and it's working for now so I can use the 5BIG as a backup - at least this is faster than re-attaching it to my Intel Mac and accessing it as NAS - that did provide sustained writes/reads of about 100MB/sec .... but backing up small files just killed the speed - so all-in-all I'm more practical with it being crippled, but locally attached for now.


As for the SoftRaid issue - with my OWC ThunderBlade RAID.....SoftRaid needs Big Sur 11.3 (which is in public beta release 7) and I am on 11.2.3 ..... I have been assured that the latest SoftRaid works on the public beta and so when 11.3 is finally released that should resolve the ThunderBlade issue. I did have it working for a short while on BS 11.1 but I moved to 11.2 as quickly as I could to mitigate the Bluetooth connection issues with my magic mouse. In 11.2 Apple, according to SoftRaid, actually accidentally removed the piece of enabling MacOs code needed for the driver - so it never worked in 11, fixed in 11.1, broken again in 11.2 and is apparently working in 11.3.....so I do have confidence in that.


My confidence in LaCie is lower - but their risk from the community at large is much bigger and I am hoping that, in conjunction with our continuing to update them will move them to resolve this.


jc 10am Toronto, April 13

Apr 13, 2021 7:11 AM

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Apr 14, 2021 3:25 AM in response to Jimcamel In response to Jimcamel

Good morning Jim,


I am sure we are not the only ones, who have this issue, else LaCie would have been in Chapter 11 already. What I do not understand is, is that there is not more pressure from the community on Apple and LaCie. There must be thousand and thousands of users worldwide who are suffering form this. It is not only the Big5 drives which are having issues, but also the Big6, Big8 and Big12. Also the G-Technology and WD have issues! Apple has created Fort Knox under Big Sur.


As far as my Set up goes. I run 30TB on the LaCie Big5, along with 24 TB on 2 LaCie Big Dock 2 drives. Besides this 24TB on OWC with Softraid (Which does not work either) and 24TB on QNAP. 80% of my systems are not accessible or with issues.


It seems to me that this is not only a LaCie and other Manufactures issue, as I think that the TB3 I/O bus had communication / performance issues. Why? This morning I wanted to load a small file (300MB) from the external drive..... Spinning Wheel. I have constantly spinning wheels on the Mac M1. I do not have them under Catalina, unless I am accessioning a large file.


I hope that LaCie will respond to you soon hope they will come up with a viable solution, else I think they may call for Chapter 11. And this, can not be of interest to Apple. Apple does not manufacture storage devices and the are dependent on others. I do believe that Apple doesn't do themselves a favour in being ignorant on the many issues they have. I am sure that we would not have seen this under Steve Jobs. I am sure Steve is looking upon us now and knocking his head!


I have written to Tim Cook a few days and I sincere hope that somebody at Apple will respond. If not, it shows how arrogant Apple has become. You see this often at very large organisation. Mike Welsh said that this is the death of company when you do not listen to you community and you think that you have the power to dictate.


My faith in LaCie is as low as yours.... Not sure which products I will need to upgrade to and I am sure that Apple nor LaCie will refund the product investments. We invest in products, which are promoted by the vendors....what do they do? Finger pointing when problems occur and not willing to step ip-


I heard a rumour that Apple may need to remove "Rosetta" in certain countries from Big Sur. When this is the case, then I would say M1 is dead for the time being until Apple has new solution to the problem. I run many "Rosetta" based apps like, Capture One, DXO, Adobe, LRT, etc.... This would be horrors when this rumour will become true!


In an effort to get a wider audience I will try to reach out to few bigger Youtube channels as see if they are willing to step up.


We continue this thread.


Hendrik ------ Dusseldorf - 14 April around 12am


Apr 14, 2021 3:25 AM

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Apr 14, 2021 9:24 AM in response to NordicLightPhoto In response to NordicLightPhoto

Some progress !


I spoke w/LaCie Tech Support this morning - and they have acknowledged that my eMail from Monday is on my case file. I said I was disappointed that they had not had the courtesy to reach back out to me to indicate they had it and when they would be in touch...so I insisted that a TS Manager call me today. However, nothing in the last 2 hours. So, I will keep you posted on that and in your discussion you could also indicate how un-responsive LaCie has been, as a partner, over the last 5+ months - and especially in light of our trying to escalate it with them through normal courses.


jc

Apr 14, 2021 9:24 AM

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Apr 14, 2021 10:36 AM in response to Jimcamel In response to Jimcamel

It was of course Jack Welsh :-) Was late last night "clear skies" - so Astro Time!


I will update once I have visited apple. On LaCie. They send me a "survey" on how I like their service. When I clicked the link, the link was already expired. It is not very professional from LaCie not to respond. I must say, that once I am at a point where I write the CEO of a company, I get fast response!


I will send LaCie also an email to outline the issues. Perhaps I am going the CEO route :-)


Tomorrow at Apple I will of course mention LaCie's responsiveness, but also Apple's Fort Knox Operating System, which does not allow any partner easily integrate with. I think there are architectural issues with MacOS and how it handles the new hardware. An iPhone / iPad is not the same as a full fledged computer! Many different peripherals which can cause issues. I understand that you can not test them all, but the bigger vendors they should test, before launching a product.


ok...keep you posted. Now need to get ready for another Astro Night.


Clear skies.





Apr 14, 2021 10:36 AM

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Apr 14, 2021 10:58 AM in response to NordicLightPhoto In response to NordicLightPhoto

That's funny ... same thing happened to me with the Survey link ! So I also mentioned that in my letter to them. Also, when you call the 1-888 etc number for support, it directs you to live.seagate.com where you can "live chat" - but that, too, does not exist. They have some really serious issues with service and support.


Is there a way you and I can take this 'off line' temporarily with private messages ?


jc

Apr 14, 2021 10:58 AM

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Apr 14, 2021 5:23 PM in response to NordicLightPhoto In response to NordicLightPhoto

Hey ... hope the stars were awesome tonight.


I got some feedback from LaCie late on my day, today. We are scheduled to speak on the phone on Thursday about 4pm Toronto time - so we will have a discussion and see how that goes.


The gist of their eMail back to me today was that the .207 release was 'interim' and they were looking for field input - and with that can hopefully improve the performance; and learn if this is a one-off problem or a more wide-spread problem ! I would have thought some lab testing in this matter would have been pretty self-evident and they wouldn't have needed field input to detect that it was running at about one-eighth of its capable speed.


However, I have/and will commit to work with them to best advantage to test whatever; and provide any useful data I can.


But, if we can chat 'offline', that might also be beneficial.


In any event, I will report back with Thursday's conversation.


jc

Apr 14, 2021 5:23 PM

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Question: Mac mini M1 - Not able to mount LaCie 5Big Thunderbolt storage

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