Why not back up a Photos library on an external HD using TM?

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Why not back up a Photos library on an external HD using TM?

Apple says don’t do this b/c problems with permissions that my conflict with those for TM. Isn’t there a fix?

I recently managed to rescue my old, large iPhotos library (9.6.1. 19,200 photos) from a failed HD, transfer HD data it to a new external HD, and upgraded it to a Photos library that I can view and work with on my MacBook Pro (2016. 11.4).

All good, but then I was going to back-up the MBP and external to my 2Big NAS. Until I read this on Apple website:

If a Photos library is located on an external drive, don’t use Time Machine to store a backup on that external drive. The permissions for your Photos library may conflict with those for the Time Machine backup.

My Photos library is too large for the MBP. It must be on an external HD.

I am the only user of my computers. I have never encrypted a file or limited access to file, folder, or photo. Yet I occasionally am denied access to my own work b/c I don’t have permission. Permissions totally escape me.

Last thing I want to to backup external HD with Photos library and provoke another permissions conflict.

Suggestions PLEASE.

Posted on Jul 22, 2021 1:36 PM

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Answer 1

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Yer_Man

Level 10

162,462 points

Jul 22, 2021 11:43 PM in response to ArmandoWyo

You're confusing "network" and "wireless". Wired or wireless it's still a networked location.

A NAS is a headless computer, usually running a version of Linux. So, at heart, you're trying to store a Mac database on a different OS with a different disk format. See the problem? It doesn't matter with simple files. But a Photos library is not just the files, but also the tracking of the interrelationships between the db and the versions/thumbnails/originals as well as the edit history and so on. It's just a very complex beast.

If you wipe a NAS and reformat it you just create a very expensive external HD. It won't e a NAS anymore. So that's a waste of money.

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Answer 2

Niel

Level 10

727,607 points

Jul 22, 2021 2:07 PM in response to ArmandoWyo

Use a second external drive. Aside from the point about permissions, a drive may fail at any time; working data and backups should be on separate ones.

If you must use a single drive for both, partition it.

(202068)

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Answer 3

ArmandoWyo Author

Level 1

88 points

Jul 22, 2021 2:17 PM in response to Niel

Thanks. So, if Photos library is on one external HD, and that HD and MBP are backed up to a 2 Big NAS, it should be ok. that's my understanding. if so, excellent.

I use 2 external HDs for storage. But then try to backup everything to the 2Big NAS, which is exclusively for backup.

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Answer 4

Yer_Man

Level 10

162,462 points

Jul 22, 2021 4:15 PM in response to ArmandoWyo

Remember a NAS is not a suitable location for a Photos Library. It needs to be on a disk formatted Mac OS Extended (Journaled) or apfs and not on a network share. Placing a library on an inappropriate location risks significant dataloss.

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Answer 5

ArmandoWyo Author

Level 1

88 points

Jul 22, 2021 6:22 PM in response to ArmandoWyo

I've been relying on my LaCie 2Big NAS to backup computers and external HDs, with all photos and iPhoto and Photos libraries.

I see lots of discussions on this subject. More than I can follow. Is this a problem of formatting the NAS disks or of backing up over a network? I can't recall formatting the LaCie 2Big NAS when I set it up. Guided primarily by LaCie's CS.

However I think the way I have thing connected, I am not backing up over the network, at least I think not, b/c it's all hardwired. To back up my 2 external HD's that store original photos and iPhoto and Photos libraries I plug each HD to my iMac. Then the iMac and the LaCie 2Big NAS are wired to the network router. So the network router is in the middle, but everything is hard wired. I'm guessing but does that make a difference?

Also is it too late to wipe the LaCie 2Big NAS and then format it for Mac OS Extended (Journaled)? I can do that now (I hope or assume)?

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Answer 6

Jul 23, 2021 12:39 AM in response to ArmandoWyo

I think there is some confusion going on here.

1 - You can (And should) use time machine to back up your library to the time machine backup. If you don't backup your library, you WILL one day lose your photographs.

2 - You CANNOT separately store a library outside of the time machine backup, on the same drive that is used for a time machine backup.

3 - You CANNOT run/operate a library from the time machine backup.

4 - All the other stuff about a networked location - wifi or ethernet cable is correct. You cannot store a library on a networked location without risking gradual build up of damage to the data structures and eventual loss of access to your photos.

5 - So if you want to store and operate your library somewhere other than your mac system drive, it must be a directly connected drive (USB3 or Thunderbolt - or on a mac pro, an internal SATA connection), and it must be formatted APFS or MacOS extended (journaled) - neither case sensitive. That drive must be a separate volume from your time machine volume.

6 - You can still back up your external drive to your time machine backup to make sure you have a backup of your externally connected library.

As an aside - some network drive systems (eg synology) support time machine backup protocols (Time machine over SMB) to allow time machine to safely backup to a networked drive. If this is set up correctly then time machine can also backup the photos library, since the formatting and data structures of the time machine volume on the networked drive is managed by time machine.

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Answer 7

ArmandoWyo Author

Level 1

88 points

Jul 23, 2021 5:48 AM in response to TonyCollinet

tony, tons of great info. Thanks for straightening me out on confusing wifi and network. I had that wrong.

If I may prevail for one more question. I have the LaCie 2Big NAS; it's 4T, more than big enough to hold everything I have. Why not, reformat it and use it to backup everything. It's about 8-10 years old. so, cheaper than buying another external HD to backup. What do you think?

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Answer 8

Yer_Man

Level 10

162,462 points

Jul 23, 2021 11:59 AM in response to ArmandoWyo

I'm not sure you'll be able to connect to it, if you do erase and reformat it. It works for your other back ups. That's good. Now go buy another external HD, format it and use that to back up your Photos Library.

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Answer 9

Jul 23, 2021 12:47 PM in response to ArmandoWyo

How will reformatting help? It will still be a NAS won't it? Or can you also connect to it via USB?

Unless it supports time machine over SMB - in which case you could use it for a time machine backup. That would then be a good solution if you want to dedicate it purely as a backup location.

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Answer 10

ArmandoWyo Author

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88 points

Jul 23, 2021 3:42 PM in response to Yer_Man

OK Tony and Yer Man,

I'm getting close. I haven't mentioned all my external HDs, to keep this understandable for me.

But I have 2 other, fairly new LaCie's portable rugged HDs: a 1T and a 2T. As we've talked I've been moving files, folders and photos and iPhotos libraries around. Based on everything said, this is my plan.

use 1T for storage. Put Photos libraries, Pictures folders (since 2007) and original photos on it. I will connect to MBP to 1T to open, store and edit photos.

Use 2T for backup of MB, and 1T. It is MacOS extended (journaled) formatted and partitioned, although think I'll remove what's in non-TM side.

I will format the 2BigNAS to MacOS extended (journaled). and use it to backup iMac and MBP as my 2nd backup.

Will this work. thanks again for sticking with me.

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Answer 11

ArmandoWyo Author

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88 points

Jul 24, 2021 7:38 AM in response to TonyCollinet

One more thing to fix. The 1T, the storage external HD, is Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Been using this HD for 3 - 4 years for both storage and backup, so it was formatted as it should be.

But the 2T, which wil be to backup is APFS (Case-sensitive). I was following LaCie CS when set up months ago.

So, I will use disk utility to reformat it to Extended-Journaled non-case sensitive, and of course wipe it completely.

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Answer 12

ArmandoWyo Author

Level 1

88 points

Jul 22, 2021 5:22 PM in response to Yer_Man

I didn't know that about NAS. yet more to research. Came recommended. and years of dealing with LaCie, which Apple works with and sells Lacie external HD (not the NAS as far as I know).

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