From 1080i to something for vimeo - too slow

Question

Level 1

0 points

From 1080i to something for vimeo - too slow

Alright I admit that I don't have time to fully immerse myself in FCE but my task is quite simple so I was hoping not to have to spend hours working out how to do it.

I've a bunch of MTS clips recorded on a Sony CX12 which loves to record interlaced at 1080. It looks good on the PS3, in Vegas 9, etc. I can convert without re-rendering each clip directly to a quicktime with ClipWrap. This is very fast, but interlaced and unsuitable for upload.

So I drag one of the ClipWrapped .mov files (H.264, 1920 x 1080, Millions
AAC, 2 channels, 44100 Hz, 2gb big, 34mbit/second) into FCE 4.0.1 (on a 3ghz intel core 2 duo with 4gb of memory), add an interlace filter, and then Export to target the preferred size for Vimeo, which is 30 frames per second h.264 @ 5000kbit at 720p in order to get my 200 or 300 mb file for vimeo.

Here is where things go pear shaped. The export takes HOURS. For one 8 minute clip. FCE takes 150% cpu and my iMac wilts for other uses.

I've found nothing else that can do the de-interlacing, JES de-interlacer works for short chunks of the clip but not the whole file, it hangs at the end. It takes about an hour to de-interlace before failing. The "de-interlace" check box of Toast Titanium does not work. SimpleMovieX can edit the ClipWrapped clips nicely and write out new quicktimes fast but I don't think it can help me with re-rendering or de-interlacing.

So given the optimal requirements of Vimeo, what is the best way to get this all done? At this point it is even quicker to just upload the original MTS to Vimeo and let them handle it. Which I think is silly.

Posted on Aug 2, 2010 8:28 PM

Reply

Answer 1

Aug 3, 2010 3:10 AM in response to nyc863

Have you tried interlaced video on Vimeo?

I never de-interlace and have never had any problems.

Take a look at this 1280x720 clip which you can watch full screen.

http://vimeo.com/7666753

Message was edited by: Ian R. Brown

Reply

Answer 2

nyc863 Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 3, 2010 4:25 AM in response to Ian R. Brown

I did -- moving contrasty areas looked bad:

See for a screen grab:
http://imgur.com/Q1Bma.png

This was simply the first 20 seconds of my MTS file, cut, and turned into a MOV with ClipWrap and uploaded. Of course it was also huge, so down-res before uploading is necessary.

With regard to my first question, I did the "render" pass before "Export" and discovered that the "render" pass takes a long time, maybe 2 hours, but the "Export" takes maybe 20 minutes after that, even writing h.264. I tried Mpeg-4 in an mp4, but it didn't look as good and was not much quicker in Export.

Is there anything I can do to speed up "Render"?

Reply

Answer 3

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

152,825 points

Aug 3, 2010 4:30 AM in response to nyc863

That's not interlacing. You have some other problem with your downconversion or media.

Reply

Answer 4

Aug 3, 2010 4:37 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

Tom, I seem to remember someone having that type of double or triple image a short while back.

I believe the video was of some amusement park's water ride but I can't remember the outcome.

Reply

Answer 5

Aug 3, 2010 4:42 AM in response to Ian R. Brown

Got it!

Here's the thread. There may be something of help somewhere in it.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11763810&#11763810

Reply

Answer 6

nyc863 Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 3, 2010 5:03 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

with all respect, it is.

What is happening is the original source video is interlaced and the horizon is moving fast downward. In the frames that Vimeo gets, the tree line appears interlaced with blue for a good 20 raster lines because the horizon is moving so quickly.

When vimeo re-encodes for output to flash, this creates a ghost image. But the original cause is simple interlacing and it not getting de-interlaced automatically before down-res and re-encode.

When I run JES de-interlace, on that same 20 seconds and upload, and view, the problem vanishes and the picture is perfect. However JES chokes on the whole file so that isn't a solution.

When I run FCE de-interlace filter and export for Vimeo the problem vanishes, and the picture is perfect, however FCE is so incredibly slow at this workflow (import, render, export with filter and down-res to h.264) that I would be waiting a week for it to chew on the clips I have from the camera!

http://vimeo.com/13796178 (20 seconds with no de-interlace)
http://vimeo.com/13801066 (20 seconds with JES de-interlace and export)
http://vimeo.com/13844507 (whole movie with 8 seconds of accidental black screen from FCE with de-interlace filter and export and upload. This took half my morning to generate. 8 minutes).

Second two look good. First one not.

My problem is not the de-interlace as such, I guess I am wondering if it is normal for FCE to take two hours (with a prediction of 5) to "render" an imported 1080i h264 file, and another half an hour to export the down-res version, on a 3ghz imac.

Reply

Answer 7

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

152,825 points

Aug 3, 2010 5:24 AM in response to nyc863

Sounds like you should take this up with Vimeo.

Reply

Answer 8

nyc863 Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 3, 2010 5:27 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

Well, no, unless you are saying the de-interlace is the reason this workflow is so slow?

if I take out the de-interlace, it will be fast?

because the objective is not to upload the original file which is too big. I can only upload at 40kb/sec, even though Vimeo would take a large file, it isn't a solution. For lots of reasons I want a fast workflow to take this 1080i AVCHD stuff and generate smaller content. But if it is going to take 3 hours per 8 minutes, then I may have to re-think.

You are saying de-interlace filter makes the render very slow and normally a 1080 AVCHD import and export is fairly quick? maybe 2 or 3 minutes per minute of original footage?

Reply

Answer 9

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

152,825 points

Aug 3, 2010 5:37 AM in response to nyc863

You're working in FCE in a format and codec it does not support. I don't know exactly what you're doing, but if you're going into a FCE timeline you're not converting the media in ClipWrap into the correct format. De-interlace usually doesn't take long to render, but if you're putting H.264 material in an FCE timeline, then rendering that, then exporting back to H.264 it's going to be very slow.

Reply

Answer 10

nyc863 Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 3, 2010 6:26 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

well then fine let me ask what you recommend as the workflow? I can start back at the camera by plugging it in and letting FCE view all the original AVCHD data.

All I want to do is obtain at the end a progressive scan, lower res, lower bit rate (more portable) versions of the 1080i 5.1 AVCHD stuff, and not have it take 20mins per minute of footage to generate?

Reply

Answer 11

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

152,825 points

Aug 3, 2010 6:37 AM in response to nyc863

You can't do that in FCE. First, it doesn't support 5.1 surround. Second, if you had up the conversion processes, going from AVCHD to Apple Intermediate Codec and the AIC back to H.264, it's probably going to take longer than 20 minutes per minute, leaving aside any editing and rendering time necessary.

Reply

Answer 12

nyc863 Author

Level 1

0 points

Aug 3, 2010 5:42 PM in response to Tom Wolsky

Really?

So in your opinion Final Cut Express is not really very suitable for processing consumer cam footage (which is frequently AVCHD) to more portable files, in practical amounts of time.

How about Final Cut Pro, same efficiency/speed problem?

Since Sony Vegas 9 does not run on a Mac, does that mean Macs in general are not suitable for home video shot on many consumer memory card and HD cams, or is there another tool that works, in general use?

Reply

Answer 13

Tom Wolsky

Level 10

152,825 points

Aug 3, 2010 6:08 PM in response to nyc863

"in practical amounts of time"

I have no idea what that means. If you want to edit a program, ingesting and exporting, if done correctly, are a small part of the process.

FCP handles AVCHD media pretty much the same way.

The last paragraph is a ridiculous generalization, and quite wrong. Perhaps it isn't right for you, but Macs seem to work for millions of people doing video. If you simply want to clip together a few shots, top and tail them, why not just use iMovie? You can also use Premiere, which handles AVCHD natively, and would probably work fine for what you want.

Reply