When switching form a wireless to a wired extension of the network

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8 points

When switching form a wireless to a wired extension of the network

Hi,

This isn't a question per say. More a helpful piece of information to everyone who wants to switch from wirelessly extending their network ... over to a wired extension. Also called "Wired Backhaul" between two wireless routers.

I have:

A) AirPort Extreme 802.11ac

B) AirPort Time Capsule 802.11ac

where I used to wirelessly extend my network from A) --> B). If you look in the AirPort Utility, you'll see a "dashed lined" depicting that they are "WireLess:ly" connected to each other.

I recently when through the trouble of pulling a wire (Ethernet cable) between them. And when I connected them as it said in this Article. It just stopped working! Like it freaked out and nothing worked at all.

So after a handful tries, guesses and some more reading on the web for why this occurred. I made a hunch.

I did this:

Saved (exported) my configuration for both access-points routers. [just in case, so I can revert]
Wired A) from "Gigabit Ethernet LAN Port" #1 to --> B) "Gigabit Ethernet WAN Port"
I "Restore Default Settings..." on access-point B)
Waited a few minutes ... since it takes a bit of time for B) to go through the restore default settings process.
When B) came back on-line. AirPort Utility found it, and I choose the "extend my network" dialog option.
Through this dialog(s) pay attention that is says something in the line of: "Extending network through Ethernet" ...
Now when you look in the AirPort Utility, you'll see a "solid white line" depicting that they are "Wired" connected to each other (via the EtherNet cable).

The wording "Extend through Ethernet" is the key!

Since it means that it's note doing a wireless connection (and extending) the network. But that it's configuring both A) and B) access-points routers in a "wired backhaul" configuration via the EtherNet cable! 🥳

So, if you where like me, where you frist ran your two access-points in a wireless configuration ... and want to switch over to a wired configuration. Make sure to "Restore Default Settings..." on your 2nd device that you want to do the extending (in my case, this is B).

Since your AirPort access-point won't automatically re-configure itself! From a wireless backhaul --> wired backhaul! ... You have to manually "force" your 2nd access-point to re-configure itself by doing the "Restore Default Settings..."

cheers,

Daniel.

PS. If you have a three (or more) access-points ... say A) ... B) ... C) ... or even have D) ... or more etc.. etc..

Keep A) as it is - don't touch it! Since it stores / has all of your network configuration stored in it!
Connect and power them on one at a time! ... in the LAN (previous device) --> WAN port (next device)
"Restore Default Settings..." on B) ... and "Extending network through Ethernet" ...
When B) is up and running ... repeat the process from #2 for C) ... then D) ... etc... etc...

AirPort Extreme 802.11ac - Technical Specifications

https://support.apple.com/kb/sp680?locale=en_GB

AirPort Time Capsule - Technical Specifications

https://www.apple.com/vn/airport-time-capsule/specs/

Posted on Jan 25, 2022 8:07 AM

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Answer 1

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Bob Timmons

Level 10

188,234 points

Jan 25, 2022 8:28 AM in response to danalien

I recently when through the trouble of pulling a wire (Ethernet cable) between them. And when I connected them as it said in this Article. It just stopped working! Like it freaked out and nothing worked at all.

The "extending" AirPort was originally configured to look for and work with a wireless connection. You did not change this, so when you introduced a wired connection, this created a huge feedback loop, in effect, crashing the network.

When you reset the AirPort and connected the Ethernet cable, AirPort Utility detected the wired Ethernet connection between the AirPorts and correctly set up the second AirPort to "extend using Ethernet".

Bottom line.....if you want to change the way that an AirPort connects to the network, you must first reset the AirPort and then set it up again.

If you are interested, and want to see the actual setting that was applied to the second AirPort, you might be surprised to see that it is not set up to "extend" at all.

Open AirPort Utility

Click on the second AirPort, then click Edit in the smaller window that appears

Click the Wireless tab at the top of the next window

Check the setting for Network Mode

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Answer 2

danalien Author

Level 1

8 points

Jan 25, 2022 8:47 AM in response to Bob Timmons

@Bob

Thanks for the tip! ... and the info!

I checked in B) --> AirPort Utility --> Wireless --> Network Mode

And I see what you mean :-)

All in all, I'm happy. Now that I got a "wired backhaul" working between them. Didn't know that connecting a wire between them, when they where configured in a wireless-mode. Would create a huge feedback loop 🤓

From a "User point of view" I actually thought, since they are Apple AirPorts ... that they would be "Smart Enough" to understand that they where being connected in a wired-mode too ... and that they would automatically switch over to use the wired backhaul (instead of the wireless backhaul - since a wired connection is always better).

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Answer 3

Bob Timmons

Level 10

188,234 points

Jan 25, 2022 9:33 AM in response to danalien

Settings on an AirPort router cannot be changed unless you open up AirPort Utility and make the changes manually, then click to Update and save the new settings.

It's not just AirPorts that will not "auto switch" from WiFi to Ethernet. For example, unless you have an older Mac, your Mac........which might be connected to the network using WiFi......will not automatically switch over to an Ethernet connection if you simply plug in the Ethernet cable. Fortunately, it will not crash the way an AirPort will, because the Mac ignores the Ethernet connection.

So "older" Macs are smarter than "newer" Macs". There is a work around for this, but it involves manually changing some settings on the Mac. Of course, Apple does not bother to tell you about small details like this.

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Answer 4

danalien Author

Level 1

8 points

Jan 25, 2022 11:58 AM in response to Bob Timmons

Depends on the OS.....and may depend on whether the Mac is a laptop or desktop. Anything in the last 5-6 years defaults to WiFi, not Ethernet in Set Service Order.

Even on a Mac that has a physical Ethernet-port?

(I'm thinking of the new M1 Mac mini's that have gigabit Ethernet ports and the M1 iMac's that have the Ethernet port in the power-cord - even on those? it defaults to Wi-Fi? *hmm* *odd*).

Yes, you can go into Set Service Order and manually change that, but how would 99% of users know this?

Yeah, most won't know about it. It's a pity.

Let's say you are using WiFi on the Mac and WiFi is set as the default. If you then connect an Ethernet cable, there should be a message that appears to offer some options to the user......to confirm the switch over to Ethernet and/or offer some options about Set Service Order.

I get your point. And it made me think of a "simpler way" 😇

You know the "Wi-Fi" icon in the menu bar? ... it should instead of "only showing if connected to Wi-Fi" and "what Wi-Fi one is connected to".

It should instead be changed to show: "What network device/service am I connected to".

Say:

Show Wi-Fi icon ... if connected to it ... and it's the preferred "Service order"
Show EtherNet icon ... if connected to it ... and it's the preferred "Service order"

And kind of like with the "Volym icon" ... allow you to choose what device you want to use from the menu bar.

Right now, the "Wi-Fi" icon in the menu bar only shows "Wi-Fi networks" ... but if it showed (active) network devices in it. It would be easy to switch between what one would prefer.

And at the same time, you could with a glimpse of the eye see "What network device am I using?" ... Wi-Fi? ... Ethernet? ... Connected to my iPhone through USB ... Thunderbolt Bridge? ... etc etc etc...

But, nothing appears and the connection remains WiFi.....even though Ethernet is connected.......unless you have changed things previously in Set Service Order.

Yeah, that is bad.

So far, this "feature" request has been ignored by the folks that Apple that bother to read the Feedback Forms.

I haven't read about this in the Feedback Forums. But I'll have a look in the Developer Forums (since Feedback is a one-on-one ... Developer-to-Apple communication channel).

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Answer 5

danalien Author

Level 1

8 points

Jan 25, 2022 4:17 PM in response to Bob Timmons

Agree, and have suggested this to Apple a few times via Feedback.

Would love to be wrong though.

... I got curious and poked around with macOS Monterey (that I have installed on a separate partition on a test MacBook Air).

And poking around in Monterey's Network preferences. It looks like Apple has solved it! 🥳 ... that it automatically default's to "Ethernet any day of the week" over Wi-Fi.

I even forced it! By first setting the "Service Order":

Wi-Fi
Thunderbolt Ethernet

... and then I un-hooked my Thunderbolt Ethernet dongle --> Removed it from the network list (-) --> Choose "Don't show this device next time I connect it" ---> Pressed "Apply" --> and exited Network preferences.

Then entered Network preferences, again:

Connected the Thunderbolt Ethernet Dongle
Choose the "add device" (+)
Choose Thunderbolt Ethernet --> Ok
Pressed Apply ...
Waited a few seconds ...
And ... voila ... it 1st recognised I had it connected ... then a few seconds later it got an IP from the DHCP ... and magically set it self as the "default Service".

So it looks like it's been solved in macOS Monterey. But to be 100% sure, I would like to re-install a fresh copy of macOS. And check again. And if it still behaves the same way on a 2nd fresh re-install. Then I can rest assured 😇 (though, I'm only going to do a fresh re-install on my test Mac when the next version of Monterey is out ... 12.2 ... so it'll have to wait a bit)

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Answer 6

danalien Author

Level 1

8 points

Jan 25, 2022 10:02 AM in response to Bob Timmons

mmm. I just though, since it's "an Apple product" ... that they've made it so easy for the end-user that it would *just* "auto switch" 😇

Any other "non-apple product" ... I wouldn't think of that. I would have thought: "What's the most convoluted way to do stuff?" ... and multiply it by a few times 🙃

Well. Oldest Mac's I'm running (a Mac Pro 2008 and a Mac Book Air 2013) do have a "Set Service Order" in the Network options.

I don't re-call ... what's the default setting on a fresh & clean install of macOS. But I have always changed the "Service order" and put everything Ethernet above Wi-Fi ... so when I dock my MacBook to my Thunderbolt Display, it switches over from Wi-fi --> Ethernet.

Though, you'd have to agree. That it would be easier for an end-user not have to bother going into AirPort Utility to re-configure a wireless-backhaul over to a wired-backhaul, if the AirPort's would default to Ethernet over Wi-Fi, any day of the week.

But but, since Apple have stopped making AirPort-devices 😭 ... I guess, we have to live with what we got (no more R&D and new features being developed for them ... just a long long long time before they die out)

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Answer 7

Bob Timmons

Level 10

188,234 points

Jan 25, 2022 10:28 AM in response to danalien

what's the default setting on a fresh & clean install of macOS.

Depends on the OS.....and may depend on whether the Mac is a laptop or desktop. Anything in the last 5-6 years defaults to WiFi, not Ethernet in Set Service Order.

Yes, you can go into Set Service Order and manually change that, but how would 99% of users know this?

Let's say you are using WiFi on the Mac and WiFi is set as the default. If you then connect an Ethernet cable, there should be a message that appears to offer some options to the user......to confirm the switch over to Ethernet and/or offer some options about Set Service Order.

But, nothing appears and the connection remains WiFi.....even though Ethernet is connected.......unless you have changed things previously in Set Service Order.

So far, this "feature" request has been ignored by the folks that Apple that bother to read the Feedback Forms.

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Answer 8

Bob Timmons

Level 10

188,234 points

Jan 25, 2022 12:09 PM in response to danalien

Even on a Mac that has a physical Ethernet-port?

I said that things may depend on whether it is a desktop or laptop (and can't check everything). But my wife added a new iMac a few years ago.....I believe it came with Catalina installed as the OS......and we had to manually Set Service Order to Ethernet, since the default was WiFi.

The default Set Service Order to WiFi might make sense on newer laptops that do not have an Ethernet port, but you have to wonder how many users who may want to connect using Ethernet are still connected to WiFi, even though the Ethernet connection or adapter is "active".

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Answer 9

danalien Author

Level 1

8 points

Jan 25, 2022 12:37 PM in response to Bob Timmons

The default Set Service Order to WiFi might make sense on newer laptops that do not have an Ethernet port, but you have to wonder how many users who may want to connect using Ethernet are still connected to WiFi, even though the Ethernet connection or adapter is "active".

Mmm.

Though, even on "Macs that don't ship with an Ethernet-port", *IMHO* should still have the "Default Service Order" in macOS be by default "Ethernet any day of the week" first 😇

Since a user can always buy an Ethernet dongle, a dock with it or a screen that has it (like the Thunderbolt Cinema Displays...). And macOS should by default be configured to use the best option (Ethernet) by default (over Wi-Fi).

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Answer 10

Bob Timmons

Level 10

188,234 points

Jan 25, 2022 12:45 PM in response to danalien

Agree, and have suggested this to Apple a few times via Feedback.

I can't prove it, but suspect that Apple wants to use one only one operating system that is set for WiFi as a connection preference on every new Mac. That way, they don't have to set up laptops for WiFi and desktops for Ethernet as separate defaults.

Would love to be wrong though.

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Answer 11

Bob Timmons

Level 10

188,234 points

Jan 25, 2022 6:08 PM in response to danalien

Things are pretty simple on the iMac, which has an Ethernet port.

Move Ethernet to the top of the Set Service Order list.

If both Ethernet and WiFi are available, the iMac defaults to the Ethernet connection

If the Ethernet cable is disconnected, the iMac defaults to WiFi

There might be a reason to move WiFi to the top of the Set Service Order list on an iMac, but I can't think of one.

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