User profile for user: Deromax
Deromax Author
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4k footage on 1080P timeline looks soft

Hello all! So I'm testing my new Panasonic AG-CX350 pro camcorder, and I'm finding that 4k footage on a 1080P timeline is producing a loss of resolution, picture is softer. Native 1080P shot from the same camera is way sharper.


I'm mostly producing 1080P content, but planed to shoot in 4k to have leaway to reframe and zoom in post if needed. But the soft image is a deal breaker! Please look at the included screenshot. Top is the downconverted 4k picture, down is the native 1080P, both in the same 1080P timeline and exported to pro-res.


Anything obvious I'm overlooking?


I'm running FCP-X 10.4.10 on Mojave.


Thanks!

iMac 27″, macOS 10.14

Posted on Jan 31, 2022 9:25 AM

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User profile for user: BenB
BenB
User level: Level 6
13,198 points

Posted on Mar 1, 2022 3:32 AM

I edit 4K in 1080 and 720 Projects daily, have for a long time. Footage comes from my own cameras and from other folks supplying it to me. The one thing I've found, and when 4K was new this was written about a bit.


4K to HD is very unforgiving. Native 4K seen in native 4K will look great, it'll look great on the camera's LCD screen. But placing it in 1080/720 exaggerates the slightest focus issues. I've gotten very demanding of my camera folks focusing and lighting 4K. With a larger video monitor on the cameras, we've greatly improved that soft look by being able to dial in our focus in-camera with much more detail. In-camera focus assistance isn't specific enough, not by a long shot.


But I've not noticed really well done 4K becoming softer universally when edited in 1080/720.


I have found when I do need it, the stock Sharpen filter works as long as you don't go over a setting of 3 or 4. The default of 2.5 works for me 90% of the time. The problem with a Sharpen filter (and I've tried many third-party ones without much success) is that with 4K in an HD Project, it will super-magnify noise and grain really easily. You won't see it in FCP, but the export will show very exaggerated noise and grain. So be super careful with post-production sharpening. DO IT IN CAMERA FIRST!

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User profile for user: BenB
BenB
User level: Level 6
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Mar 1, 2022 3:32 AM in response to Deromax

I edit 4K in 1080 and 720 Projects daily, have for a long time. Footage comes from my own cameras and from other folks supplying it to me. The one thing I've found, and when 4K was new this was written about a bit.


4K to HD is very unforgiving. Native 4K seen in native 4K will look great, it'll look great on the camera's LCD screen. But placing it in 1080/720 exaggerates the slightest focus issues. I've gotten very demanding of my camera folks focusing and lighting 4K. With a larger video monitor on the cameras, we've greatly improved that soft look by being able to dial in our focus in-camera with much more detail. In-camera focus assistance isn't specific enough, not by a long shot.


But I've not noticed really well done 4K becoming softer universally when edited in 1080/720.


I have found when I do need it, the stock Sharpen filter works as long as you don't go over a setting of 3 or 4. The default of 2.5 works for me 90% of the time. The problem with a Sharpen filter (and I've tried many third-party ones without much success) is that with 4K in an HD Project, it will super-magnify noise and grain really easily. You won't see it in FCP, but the export will show very exaggerated noise and grain. So be super careful with post-production sharpening. DO IT IN CAMERA FIRST!

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User profile for user: Deromax
Deromax Author
User level: Level 1
33 points

Feb 1, 2022 6:50 AM in response to Sergionix

Hi! Indeed, a Sharpen filter with the default setting of 2.5 will bring back a level of apparent sharpness similar to the 1080P footage. I guess this is a serviceable trick.


I wondered if the slight bluring is an inherent issue with all downconverting, or if the Apple implementation is bad. I redid the comparison using VLC player to display the original 1080P footage at 100% and the original 4k footage at 50%, instead of the FCP-X/Quicktime conversion. There is still a slight loss of quality using VLC but I think the result is a tad better than Apple's.


This is puzzling me, as I have been led to believe that a downconversion produced better results. In the golden age of the DVD, Hollywood movies mastered in HD, then put on DVD, were arguably the better looking ones!


Anyway, thanks for the hint! :)

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User profile for user: Deromax
Deromax Author
User level: Level 1
33 points

Feb 28, 2022 2:57 PM in response to CNMedia

Indeed there is a Sharpening adjustment in the CX350 menu, but it may be safer to wait for the post production stage to make such adjustments. Pre-sharpening in-camera on the 4K footage may give differents results than sharpening the 1080P downsized final image. But you could probably go by trial and error up until you are pleased with the results.


I have not talked about the CX350 menus! We discussed the Sharpen effect in Final Cut Pro-X!

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User profile for user: Deromax
Deromax Author
User level: Level 1
33 points

Mar 1, 2022 11:56 AM in response to BenB

Thanks for taking the time to write this. However, this is not the issue here. I know very well that 4K downconverted to 1080 will loss resolution, that’s the point of downconversion!


At this point I don’t even have a way to watch native 4K, so it’s not a question of comparing 4K to HD and being sad at the loss of quality!


It’s not a question of focus or lighting either. My comparison is of a static subject, static camera, constant lighting and constant camera settings, of a clip shot at 4K and another one other shot in HD.


The HD clip viewed in HD is sharp, meaning that the in-camera downsizing, which is actually oversampling from the 4K sensor, is great, but the 4K downsized by FCPX and viewed in HD, is soft, meaning the process is badly executed, imho.

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4k footage on 1080P timeline looks soft

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