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Old AirPort base stations to extend 3rd party Wi-Fi via Roaming Network Ethernet

A question from a pack-rat trying to avoid getting yet another new hardware ;-]


Sorry for a long post. Questions marked with ->


I currently have Huawei B593s-22 mobile 4G as my Internet (old rust unreliable DSL copper maybe replaced with optical fibre "real soon now" (5G too pricey and maybe not too reliable) but I digress...).


The Huawei mobile Internet has performed OK (after I switched provider with better coverage) minus some occasional Wi-Fi blackouts cured by rebooting it (while my main Mac mini 2018 connected to it via household Cat6 Ethernet was still OK).


-> Lately my old 2010 Apple Magic Mouse bluetooth quite often disconnects from Mac mini 2018 and it was recommended to switch Wi-Fi to 5 GHz -only to avoid interference. But the old Huawei supports only 2.4 GHz.


I was ready to buy and try a new Magic Mouse but then I remembered that I had an old 2011 AirPort Extreme 802.11n 5th Generation and an even older 2004 AirPort Extreme 802.11g Snow Dual Ethernet Base Station in the erm... basement with the Mac Plus.


So before buying YA new gear I tried old gear:


First I dug out the 2011 AirPort Extreme 802.11n 5th Generation and updated its firmware ... only to then google that new FW versions have disabled the "5 GHz -only" feature (maybe because too many people then complained that old 2.4 GHz-only gear could not connect anymore?).


-> Question: I noticed that AirPort Utility iOS 15.4.1 lists FW versions 7.5.2-7.8.1. Is it really possible to downgrade the AirPort base station and do those versions have 5 GHz-only option?? (It seems my other gear does not support 5 GHz so this might be a futile exercise anyway...).


With 2011 AirPort Extreme 802.11n 5th Generation -only (Huawei Wi-Fi switched OFF the bluetooth mouse still occasionally disconnects but maybe less frequently. I now switched also Huawei's Wi-Fi ON to cover all household and it seems to work OK.


"Roaming Network (Ethernet-connected Wi-Fi base stations) is by far the best choice for 802.11n Wi-Fi base stations."


Great!


-> ...but is it counter-productive and asking for trouble to use many Ethernet-connected (and old!) base stations to extend Wi-Fi also to the backyard? Is the 2004 AirPort Extreme 802.11g Snow Dual Ethernet Base Station too old for that?


I noticed that even my MacBook Mid 2010 running High Sierra does not support that ancient base station. AFAIR there was a Mojave app that could launch an older AirPort Utility and configure it. And my 2004 PowerBook G4 running Leopard does indeed seem to support both oldish AirPort base stations.


-> Question: 2004 AirPort Extreme 802.11g Snow Dual Ethernet Base Station does still seem to work but would it produce unexpected glitches with more current gear?!


thanks,


- Matti

Posted on Apr 23, 2022 9:14 AM

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Posted on Apr 24, 2022 10:23 AM

First I dug out the 2011 AirPort Extreme 802.11n 5th Generation and updated its firmware ... only to then google that new FW versions have disabled the "5 GHz -only" feature (maybe because too many people then complained that old 2.4 GHz-only gear could not connect anymore?).


This information is not accurate. The 5th Gen AirPort Extreme produces dual 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands. It is not possible to disable the 2.4 GHz band (or the 5 GHz band for that matter.


If you had the 6th Gen AirPort Extreme......also known as the 802.11ac AirPort Extreme......it is possible to disable either the 2.4 GHz or the 5 GHz band on that model.


It is possible to assign a different wireless network name for the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands on the 5th Gen AirPort that you have, so if you wanted to only use the AirPort Extreme with 5 GHz capable devices, you could "tell" devices to only connect to the 5 GHz network. In this case, devices would "ignore" the 2.4 GHz network since they are connected to the 5 GHz network.

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Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Apr 24, 2022 10:23 AM in response to Matti Haveri

First I dug out the 2011 AirPort Extreme 802.11n 5th Generation and updated its firmware ... only to then google that new FW versions have disabled the "5 GHz -only" feature (maybe because too many people then complained that old 2.4 GHz-only gear could not connect anymore?).


This information is not accurate. The 5th Gen AirPort Extreme produces dual 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands. It is not possible to disable the 2.4 GHz band (or the 5 GHz band for that matter.


If you had the 6th Gen AirPort Extreme......also known as the 802.11ac AirPort Extreme......it is possible to disable either the 2.4 GHz or the 5 GHz band on that model.


It is possible to assign a different wireless network name for the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands on the 5th Gen AirPort that you have, so if you wanted to only use the AirPort Extreme with 5 GHz capable devices, you could "tell" devices to only connect to the 5 GHz network. In this case, devices would "ignore" the 2.4 GHz network since they are connected to the 5 GHz network.

Apr 23, 2022 4:15 PM in response to Matti Haveri

Let me start with your second question first:


Matti Haveri wrote:

-> Question: 2004 AirPort Extreme 802.11g Snow Dual Ethernet Base Station does still seem to work but would it produce unexpected glitches with more current gear?!

Definitely not worth it. First 802.11g only runs on the 2.4 GHz band. If you are planning on setting up a 5 GHz-only network, you will need to run to separate networks for each band. Sort of defeats the purpose of disabling the 2.4 band on the AirPort Extreme. You also don't want to run the slower 802.11b/g clients on your wireless network as this will affect it overall performance. Finally, I believe, that this old base station does not support WPA2 so wireless security will potentially be compromised. Pretty much a "museum piece" now.


-> ...but is it counter-productive and asking for trouble to use many Ethernet-connected (and old!) base stations to extend Wi-Fi also to the backyard? Is the 2004 AirPort Extreme 802.11g Snow Dual Ethernet Base Station too old for that?

Multiple base station connected by Ethernet is actually more efficient performance-wise, but again, not with the 802.11g model. Stick with all "n" (better still "ac") models for a roaming network.


-> Question: I noticed that AirPort Utility iOS 15.4.1 lists FW versions 7.5.2-7.8.1. Is it really possible to downgrade the AirPort base station and do those versions have 5 GHz-only option?? (It seems my other gear does not support 5 GHz so this might be a futile exercise anyway...).

Unfortunately, I don't have a 5th gen AirPort Extreme to confirm, but my (last remaining) 802.11ac Time Capsule, running 7.9.1 can be configured for a 5 GHz-only wireless network. Bob Timmons is the resident AirPort expert here. I'm sure if he chimes in, he can confirm that with you for your model.


-> Lately my old 2010 Apple Magic Mouse bluetooth quite often disconnects from Mac mini 2018 and it was recommended to switch Wi-Fi to 5 GHz -only to avoid interference. But the old Huawei supports only 2.4 GHz.

It has been my experience that this issue only occurs if the mouse & wireless access point are near each other. Think both on the same desk. Otherwise, this really should happen.


FWIW, I currently use a Logitech wireless mouse/keyboard combo that either uses a proprietary "Unifying" or a Bluetooth network for connectivity. I opted for the former, which requires a single small USB dongle (one comes with each device) to be installed on my Mac for the connection between devices. As such, Wi-Fi interference is not an issue for me.

Apr 23, 2022 8:57 PM in response to Tesserax

Thanks for the insightful comments. The Wi-Fi base stations are 1-2-3 rooms away from the old Magic Mouse so there is plenty of distance. Maybe the old mouse is just too old. Reportedly the Mac mini 2018 bluetooth is also quite sensitive to poorly shielded 3rd party USB devices. I retire the ancient AirPort 802.11g and test the newer AirPort 802.11n as a roaming Wi-Fi extender for a few days. BTW the Huawei is somewhat further away behind a few wooden walls upstairs but NetSpot.app still reports slightly better 2.4 GHz SNR compared to the AirPort (but the devices connect OK to the AirPort 5 GHz which is the only 5 GHz in the neighbourhood).

Apr 23, 2022 9:10 PM in response to Matti Haveri

Matti Haveri wrote:

Reportedly the Mac mini 2018 bluetooth is also quite sensitive to poorly shielded 3rd party USB devices.

Interesting, as I currently have a 2018 Mac mini as well, and don't seem to have any issues in this regard. Then again, I don't use a Magic Mouse, and use a Logitech one instead, as I mentioned earlier.


BTW the Huawei is somewhat further away behind a few wooden walls upstairs but NetSpot.app still reports slightly better 2.4 GHz SNR compared to the AirPort (but the devices connect OK to the AirPort 5 GHz which is the only 5 GHz in the neighbourhood).

As I'm sure you are already aware, due to physics, the 2.4 GHz band can traverse object better than the 5 GHz band ... and why, the higher band is basically only useable within the same room as it is being broadcasted in. Remember, Wi-Fi is a two-way communication. Even if you have a very strong signal coming from the wireless access point (WAP,) your wireless client must be able to "talk back" with sufficient strength to be "heard" by that WAP.


This, of course, shouldn't be an issue with a properly configured roaming network where you have strategically placed your WAPs for the coverage area you require.

Apr 23, 2022 9:27 PM in response to Tesserax

Just to clarify: I was comparing the 2.4 GHz band SNR between the more distant Huawei and the Airport almost in clear sight. The Huawei is set to the default "100% power" (other options 40-60-80%, 20 MHz channel width -- the other option being 40 MHz) while there seems to be no such options for the AirPort. The 2.4 GHz channels are are automatically set, currently to 1 and 11.

Apr 24, 2022 10:49 AM in response to Bob Timmons

The 5th Gen AirPort Extreme produces dual 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz bands. It is not possible to disable the 2.4 GHz band (or the 5 GHz band for that matter.


Thanks for the info.


I have not assigned different name for the 5 GHz because maybe then I'd have to manually fiddle the settings to 2.4 GHz when going upstairs or to the backyard away from the 5 GHz base station? Or would the iPhone or iPad transparently switch base stations even then? Anyway, the current setup seems to work pretty well with the exact same SSID "Network Name" and password and "WPA2 Personal" security settings for both base stations.


Maybe coincidental, but with this setup the old bluetooth Magic Mouse disconnects have been quite rare. Previously it happened very often.

Apr 24, 2022 12:12 PM in response to Matti Haveri

Anyway, the current setup seems to work pretty well with the exact same SSID "Network Name" and password and "WPA2 Personal" security settings for both base stations.


This is the setting that most users should use, and coincidentally it is also the default setting for the AirPort routers.


I would only use the option to assign a separate name to the 5 GHz network if all of the WiFi devices will always be located in close proximity to the AirPort Extreme. The reason.......if you have separate names assigned to the 2.4 GHz and 5 GHz networks, then devices that are currently connected to the 5 GHz band will not automatically switch over to the 2.4 GHz band when they move further away from the AirPort Extreme. And.....devices that are assigned to the 2.4 GHz network will not automatically switch over to the 5 GHz band if they move closer to the AirPort Extreme.


Nothing is ever perfect on a Wi-Fi network......the best that you can do is hope for a best compromise situation.





Old AirPort base stations to extend 3rd party Wi-Fi via Roaming Network Ethernet

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