Music app Composer sorting really acting weird

I added an album to my Music app and after adding composer data to the tracks, I'm getting very weird behavior. It's an album of Burt Bacharach songs. The songs are composed by him and a variety of partners.

I entered the composer data, and under the Sorting tab, put in "Bacharach, Burt" as the Sort Composer. You can see this in the screen capture below.


But when I go to the Composers view in the library, the composers are listed multiple times, and out of alphabetical order. You can see "Burt Bacharach, Hal David" and "Bob Hilliard, Burt Bacharach" multiple times.

What gives here?


MacBook Pro 15″, macOS 12.6

Posted on Oct 23, 2022 6:37 PM

Reply
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Oct 23, 2022 7:03 PM

Don't try to mash together different primary values with a common sort value. You need to use something along these lines for the sort values such that each unique combination of composers gets a unique sort value:


Bacharach, Burt

Bacharach, Burt/Bayer Sager, Carole

Bacharach, Burt/Costello, Elvis

Bacharach, Burt/David, Hal

Bacharach, Burt/David, Mack

Bacharach, Burt/David, Mack/Williams, Barney

Bacharach, Burt/Hilliard, Bob

etc.


tt2

9 replies
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Oct 23, 2022 7:03 PM in response to wilbur808

Don't try to mash together different primary values with a common sort value. You need to use something along these lines for the sort values such that each unique combination of composers gets a unique sort value:


Bacharach, Burt

Bacharach, Burt/Bayer Sager, Carole

Bacharach, Burt/Costello, Elvis

Bacharach, Burt/David, Hal

Bacharach, Burt/David, Mack

Bacharach, Burt/David, Mack/Williams, Barney

Bacharach, Burt/Hilliard, Bob

etc.


tt2

Oct 26, 2022 12:06 PM in response to wilbur808

Long experience with iTunes tells me you are always at risk of odd issues when you try to smash different primary values together with a common sort value. Distinct primary values should have distinct sort values. How it looks, and where it sorts.


Even when primary and sort values are all set consistently iTunes may still decide to generate repeat entries in menus for a given value. Here is my boilerplate post on the topic...



If iTunes shows multiple instances of an artist or an album then what generally works is to select all related tracks and use Get Info to add say a trailing X to each of the fields that the tracks should have in common:

  • For an album; Album, Album Artist, and Artist (if artist is the same for all tracks) *
  • For an artist; Album Artist (and Artist unless there are guest/featured artists listed which should not be changed)

Apply the change which merges things together, then remove the excess characters. Occasionally it may help to close and reopen iTunes between the two renaming operations. Part of a compilation should also be set consistently.


* If tracks are to be synced to a non-iOS device there should be a common Artist and/or the album should be set as a Compilation.



Use the songs view and display the fields Album, Sort Album, Album Artist, Sort Album Artist, Artist and Sort Artist side by side so you see whether or not it is appropriate to edit Artist and if sort values could be causing any further problems. See Grouping tracks into albums for more help if required.



One further tip for really stubborn duplicates. At one point I had three lots of Various Artists in the artists view of my iTunes Match library that wouldn't respond to the usual trailing X treatment. What I found worked was to add the trailing X to start with, but then with each group that iTunes wanted to keep separate start typing a value and let iTunes autocomplete from say Var... to Various Artists. Picking from the autocomplete lists seemed to work when pasting/editing the whole value didn't.



tt2

Oct 26, 2022 7:13 AM in response to turingtest2

I think I may be asking for something that the Music app won't do. I would like to enter "Prince" into the "Sort as" field to group together all my Prince albums where he uses different monikers (Prince, Prince & the Revolution, Madhouse (side jazz project)). If I do this, the albums view show the actual name used on the album, as seen on the left side of the screenshot picture below. But then if I look at the Artist view, there's some weirdness much like what I saw with the composer issue I had, where "Prince" shows up multiple times. I guess I didn't notice this before, as it's not as obvious as what I saw with the Burt Bacharach composer issue.


If I enter "Prince in the "Album artist" field, the Artist listing now behaves, with just one listing for "Prince", but then the album view shows "Prince" as the artist for all of these albums instead of the different monikers. You can see this on the right side of the screenshot picture below.


To my mind, the Artist view should organize by the "Album Artist Sort as" field, then "Album Artist", then "Artist Sort as", then "Artist", and the Artist list should group items by the first non-zero entry in the order above. This would result in one entry for "Prince", as if I had entered "Prince" in the Album Artist field for all of these albums, but retain the display of the actual moniker used for the albums in the Album view, as that seems to pull from the Artist field.


Likewise, the Composer view should organize by "Composer Sort as", then "Composer", and the list generated in that view should be grouped by the first non-zero entry. With this, all the Burt Bacharach partnerships would be pulled together under "Bacharach, Burt" as one entry.


This seems more intuitive to me than whatever the Music app is doing.


Oct 26, 2022 7:39 AM in response to wilbur808

With no custom value for Prince and the Revolution it would automatically line up after Prince (assuming no unrelated princely artists). With Madhouse you could use a sort value of Prince (Madhouse), sorting after (between?) the others but still having a distinct sort value to avoid confusion. You could even use Prince #1, Prince #2, Prince #3 etc. to force a particular order if required.


The other approach I take, more useful for individual songs rather than albums, is to add a comment such as [As <Band>] or [Feat. <Artist>] into the track title, and use my preferred value for Artist, Sort Artist, Album Artist & Sort Album Artist. I use square brackets for these notes so they cannot be confused with parentheticals in song titles.


tt2

Oct 26, 2022 12:53 PM in response to turingtest2

I've done the "add x to the album name and then delete it" thing myself. But just because iTunes/Music doesn't seem to work well if different primary values have the same sort value, that doesn't mean that the sorting algorithm in iTunes/Music can't be improved.


It's been a long time since I've done any coding, but here's one approach I can think of to address the original issue I mentioned about the Burt Bacharach composer list weirdness. The routine would parse "Sort Composer", and if "Sort Composer" is a blank value, then parse "Composer", and generate a list of composers. Then scan that list, and get rid of duplicates. Then group the songs under the generated list of composers, and under each generated composer entry, group the songs by artist then album.

Oct 24, 2022 1:05 PM in response to turingtest2

Thanks, that helped. I was surprised that I was having such an issue with this, as I had done a similar thing with Artists who have a number of side projects. For example, Prince has Prince, Prince and the Revolution, New Power Generation, and other groups/monikers. I had that set up in my library as all "Sort as — Prince", and there weren't any obvious weirdness that resulted.


Having said that, it does seem like grouping all those Burt Bacharach composer combinations under the same "Sort Composer" heading should not cause the listing weirdness that I saw. Maybe that's just me.

Oct 26, 2022 8:23 AM in response to turingtest2

It sounds like you're confirming my take on the way Music handles the Sort as field — it's not going to do what I would like it to do.


Keeping with the Prince example, for artist sorting, if multiple monikers are grouped together under a single entry ("Prince") in the "Sort as" field, I'd like the Album view to look like the left side of the photo above, where the moniker is displayed, not "Prince" for all albums. For the Artist view, I'd like the monikers to appear where "Prince" would appear on the list, but not to have the weirdness that I see with duplications, as seen in the screenshot below. In other words, this section of the Artist list should have one entry each for "Prince", "Prince and the Revolution", "Prince and the New Power Generation", "The New Power Generation", "The NPG Orchestra", "Prince & 3RDEYEGIRL", and "Madhouse", and all of these should show up where "Prince" would be on the list as if it was by itself.


I would also expect the Composer sorting to behave the same way.


This thread has been closed by the system or the community team. You may vote for any posts you find helpful, or search the Community for additional answers.

Music app Composer sorting really acting weird

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.