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Apple Music, Audiophiles and Streamers.

Super (audiophile) niche topic.


I want to thank Apple for single handedly turning me into an audiophile by introducing Hires streaming and Spatial Audio to its services.


I have since spent tens of thousands in pursuit of a "perfect" sound system, and as any audiophile knows, a signal free of electrical noise is a necessary step towards audio heaven.


The dilemma: a computer has a very "noisy" environment, and as a streaming source, it is less than ideal. We also know that Apple Music will only connect to 3rd party dedicated streamers via Airplay, which will compress any lossless signal. Also not ideal.


This is not the case with streaming services like Tidal, Qobuz and Amazon which allow you to login to your account on these streamers apps, unlike Apple which is sandboxing Apple Music into its ecosystem for wired playback and potentially turning away audiophiles.


Curious to know how others are using Apple Music in their audiophile rig.



iMac Pro

Posted on Jan 2, 2023 5:14 PM

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Posted on Jan 3, 2024 9:50 AM

Fantasy land.


I work in music production and there is NO WAY you can tell the difference between 48k and 96k. You might feel it. But not hear it. Let alone 192K. The important numbers are the bit depth and (ideally zero) compression rates of your source. As you get older this becomes even more apparent and I challenge anyone over the age of 50 to hear anything above 15k. That requires a sample rate of merely 30k to be resolved. Forget 192k for playback.


All music production involves a computer and guess what your DAC is a computer effectively. This component definitely can affect your appreciation especially with regards to jitter and consistency as well as how well it can actually reproduce 24bit sound.

The reason for 96k and above is so that at the RECORDING STAGE in the ideal environment of a recording studio, full bandwidth is captured, and when digital manipulation is inevitably introduced (reverb, mixing, compression, stereo width manipulation, panning to “simulate” surround (cos it’s not as simple as just placing a surround mic array in front of an orchestra and playing this bit for bit through your speakers hah! If life were that simple)etc) all these additive and subtractive processes can take place at 64 bit float at 192k so that the final output (48k at 24bit) does not reflect any rounding errors in the various computations involved - which used to be a problem in digital mastering in the late 90’s as studio gear could not go past 48k internally in that era. Not the case today. (This historic limitation was audible and fuelled the early vinyl vs CD debate that raged in the 90’s).


Best way to spend £10k from an audiophile perspective is first: sort out the room you are listening in. Seriously stop and read that again. Your room is going to add so much crap to the signal that you spend thousands reproducing. You need to sort out the reflections in the room.

Then sort out the source (get as high a streaming rate as you can/best DAC you can afford up to I wish day 40% too your budget) and balance your remaining budget between speakers and amp. You can upgrade speakers later. It’s a continual changing game that one. Cables, again, are a brilliant marketing ploy of the HiFi industry and unless you are running bell wire across a football pitch, you are basically fine. Nothing compares with balanced signal transmission as found in the studios where all this wonderful music is recorded and mastered.

So sorry to be a wet blanket on this - but actually things are more affordable than the hifi industry wants you to know.

Headphones? That’s another whole story.


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Jan 3, 2024 9:50 AM in response to MauchMe

Fantasy land.


I work in music production and there is NO WAY you can tell the difference between 48k and 96k. You might feel it. But not hear it. Let alone 192K. The important numbers are the bit depth and (ideally zero) compression rates of your source. As you get older this becomes even more apparent and I challenge anyone over the age of 50 to hear anything above 15k. That requires a sample rate of merely 30k to be resolved. Forget 192k for playback.


All music production involves a computer and guess what your DAC is a computer effectively. This component definitely can affect your appreciation especially with regards to jitter and consistency as well as how well it can actually reproduce 24bit sound.

The reason for 96k and above is so that at the RECORDING STAGE in the ideal environment of a recording studio, full bandwidth is captured, and when digital manipulation is inevitably introduced (reverb, mixing, compression, stereo width manipulation, panning to “simulate” surround (cos it’s not as simple as just placing a surround mic array in front of an orchestra and playing this bit for bit through your speakers hah! If life were that simple)etc) all these additive and subtractive processes can take place at 64 bit float at 192k so that the final output (48k at 24bit) does not reflect any rounding errors in the various computations involved - which used to be a problem in digital mastering in the late 90’s as studio gear could not go past 48k internally in that era. Not the case today. (This historic limitation was audible and fuelled the early vinyl vs CD debate that raged in the 90’s).


Best way to spend £10k from an audiophile perspective is first: sort out the room you are listening in. Seriously stop and read that again. Your room is going to add so much crap to the signal that you spend thousands reproducing. You need to sort out the reflections in the room.

Then sort out the source (get as high a streaming rate as you can/best DAC you can afford up to I wish day 40% too your budget) and balance your remaining budget between speakers and amp. You can upgrade speakers later. It’s a continual changing game that one. Cables, again, are a brilliant marketing ploy of the HiFi industry and unless you are running bell wire across a football pitch, you are basically fine. Nothing compares with balanced signal transmission as found in the studios where all this wonderful music is recorded and mastered.

So sorry to be a wet blanket on this - but actually things are more affordable than the hifi industry wants you to know.

Headphones? That’s another whole story.


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Mar 11, 2023 2:31 AM in response to Dudedelux

i suffered dearly last time I posted to an audiophile forum. But I feel a bit safer because you are accepting of PCM. I don’t identify as an audiophile, but I’ve spent a similar amount of money on an amateur critical listening system. The good thing about having spent 10k+ is that the next part is a small percentage. Unless you are so audiophile you believe only unadulterated DSD 256+ will do, you are in luck. All the modern music you listen to - even classical - will likely have been through a computer for at least mastering if not recording and mixing as well. Quality external ADC/DACs are how it was made, so using a quality DAC out of your Mac/ iPad is absolutely fine. Industry standard. Do not fret about “the insides of a computer not being ideal”. The music has already been there. There are some really expensive DACs (like Merging) but there are excellent options around 1K if your preamp doesn’t have its own USB port to use it’s built in DAC. (Quite a few mid tear preamps have these). Then grab a dedicated HiFi iPad or Mac slave. I know a Mac Mini as a dedicated streamer sounds like overkill, but it’s cheap for a hifi component. Or pray AirPlay 3 does HiRes. In five years. Or accept that 48khz sample rate is all you can actually discern and use an Apple TV through an hdmi splitter/ARC to SPDIF. I know technically this is true (48K already being overkill), but I’m with you on imaginary magic ears and wasn’t satisfied. My ears become more magic the older I get and the more gear I can afford. When I could actually hear at 20k I was never bothered by anharmonic Nyqvist reflections from poor low pass filtering at the recording stage, or poor filtering of quantisation noise at the DAC stage. Now they haunt me like never before. A terrible thought…

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Jan 3, 2023 5:18 PM in response to Dudedelux

There’s no way to do it. I spent an hour and a half in the phone with Apple support asking me questions that demonstrated they don’t have a clue. There’s no way other than using the 3.5mm out. I am all but done with Apple Music it’s a waste of time for lossless - I will move to another service like Tidal. Apple have really screwed up its a complete mess - they must realise that if the go after consumers that aren’t price sensitive those consumers are likely to have decent hifi and expect a lossless source to be just that. In apples case lossless is really little more than a gimmick.

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May 4, 2023 6:28 PM in response to Dudedelux

I just wanted to thank all of you for the extremely informative posts. I’ve spent many, many hours in pursuit of the 192Khz from Apple Music holy grail and you folks have saved me further effort, at least for now. However, I will say that listening to classical Dolby Atmos audio from an ATV4K through a good Marantz 11.2 receiver — or even through a stereo pair of original HomePods — is already a viscerally transporting experience, far exceeding anything that came before in my 68 years on this earth.

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Feb 25, 2023 2:13 AM in response to Mr. Mobius

When I want better than CD quality I connect my iPad to a USB C to Toslink adapter and then Toslink into the back of my active speaker setup (other ports are in use and DAC is better than many affordable externals).


I don’t mind the setup apart from the fact that I have no control over the system from my seating position other than volume through a remote.


I really wouldn’t mind having an iPad mini in this setup all the time provided I could control it from an app on my phone. It is that part that is missing for me. It’s only a software issue.

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Jan 21, 2024 6:33 PM in response to Dudedelux

A year later, having surveyed every streamer available on the market, I have come to the conclusion that the question should not be "what streamer?" but "Do we actually need them?".


We don't.


If you are exclusive to Apple Music, an iPad feeding a DAC via USB C is all you need. No need to perpetually adjust the output res in the midi app either.


If you like Dolby mixes, Apple TV is all you need, or a USB C to HDMI cable into a receiver works too on a silicon based iPhone or iPad.


On the latter, WE NEED MORE than the current 48Khz, with BluRays and SACD's all clocking above 96Khz.


Lossy Atmos is underwhelming at best on audiophile gear, so Apple, as it continues to champion Spatial Audio, should consider bumping that up.


Interesting that the payout is higher for artists providing Dolby mixes, but every conversation I'm having with my many label clients centers around sound quality. "Is it any good?", and the answer is "it's good enough", which is definitely not enough for an audiophile.


Apple, do your thing and make it GREAT.



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Jun 29, 2024 7:49 AM in response to Dudedelux

Hey Dudedelux. Welcome to the exhilarating, frustrating, never-quite-there-yet world of audiophiles! 😂


Unfortunately, Apple TV PLAYS hi res files but OUTPUTS downsampled rates via hdmi. The limitation is the hdmi output isn’t configured for hi res (hdmi technically CAN be, but is t on App TV). For now (still) the best way to play hi res from Apple Music is from an iOS device, which automatically adjust sampling output for songs based on their native sample rates, connected to an external DAc via usb, and then into your analog connections in your receiver or amplifier connected to speakers. The solid state nature of iOS devices is pretty good for electric noise reduction. Apple Music quality on hi res settings is quite good. Of course the better your DAC/Amp/receiver/speakers setup the better output you’ll enjoy.


One day Apple will upgrade the HDMI output on Apple TV. Seems such a simple thing. Can’t believe this hasn’t happened yet. Fails to leverage their amazing library for the group that cares about audio quality. And it’s already a home audio-connected device! Pretty frustrating.

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Feb 12, 2023 12:03 AM in response to Dudedelux

Same here, I’ve been searching for a way to get lossless to my receiver for years now. It is so frustrating and honestly I cannot understand why Apple refuses to allow third party media players to access Apple Music. With the right set up of the system you can get decent sound, but still it is limited to the compressed input to the receiver. I am still hoping that one day Apple will allow this.

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Jun 29, 2024 10:37 AM in response to subagon

coming from a samsung android tablet, a samsung s24 ultra phone, and a roku for my tv streaming, i decided to try apple music (dip my toe into it to try it out first). so i bought an apple tv 4K ethernet model and connected it to my Anthem AVR. well, i was able to experience Atmos music via the Apple TV 4K box, albeit at the reduced streaming rate. my main goal is to try out Apple Music Classical, as they bought Primephonic (the best classical streaming service) and simply rebranded it to be Apple Music Classical.


after trying out apple music classical's app on my Samsung android tablet, i now understand how great apple music classical, ne primephonic, really is! the suggestions, the layout, the number of recordings of a particular piece, the written commentaries accompanying most pieces, are all fantastic.


now my problem is to get the highest possible quality streaming of Apple Music Classical (as well as Apple Music regular). looking at all the options, i don't want to piece together an iPad with dac and make it a science project. my audio visual equipment is 35 feet away from my listening chair inside a media closet (with a door) on equipment racks, so controlling the music being streamed is important.


i looked into the Eversolo A6, A6 upgraded edition, and the A8. everything was a "go" for me on the Eversolo A8 until i discovered that its CAST function is like a limited visual field on the apple music classical page! you have to use your tablet to scroll up and down and left and right non-stop to be able to even view a standard page on apple music/apple music classical! then, a friend said this to me: one might be better off and enjoy the pleasures of being able to browse/select music on a standard apple music page without the need for endless scrolling MORE than the pleasures of occasionally listening to recording that happen to have 196 kHz streams.


that, to me, is precisely the issue i encountered. i think the actual pleasures of being able to browse as apple music classical is designed to be browsed, exceeds the occasional pleasures of having some recordings at a high bitrate.


as such, i ended up looking for a high quality bluetooth receiver, i.e. the iFi Zen Blue v3. this device streams LDAC 96 kHz and i will simply attach this device to my Anthem AVR, and at my listening seat, have my Samsung tablet and browse as it is designed to be viewed, full page, without excessive scrolling. sure, i had to give up 196. but you know, getting the occasional 196 gives me limited additional pleasures only some of the time (when there are such recordings), and only sometimes, i might notice the difference - it is not obvious each and every time. whereas the outstanding Primephonic, now Apple Music Classical presentation on their pages, as they are designed, gives me enjoyment all the time whenever i browse, select music, look for other pieces that i've wanted to listen to, look at their huge (really huge!) list of recordings offered for that piece of music, select one that i like to listen to, consider their "editor's choice" recording at the top of the list, maybe read their summary blurb at the top (which are very well written, btw), all this gives me far more pleasure than the occasional 196 via Eversolo.


now, of course, if one day, i can browse full page as it was designed, through the Eversolo or a new apple device, sure, great, i'll buy that device. but in the meantime, apple is taking their sweet time NOT giving audiophiles an easy solution, i'll wait with my LDAC 96 streaming AND with full screen browsing as apple music classical was designed to be used and enjoyed.

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Jan 27, 2024 8:50 AM in response to Dudedelux

I’d most like to see the next AppleTV be given the ability to output HighRes Lossless. I currently use an HDMI splitter to run optical out to my DAC and rca to Integrated Amplifier. The sound at standard lossless is very good (definitely at least as good as I was getting from my CD player) but would love to have high resolution nonetheless. I’d think Apple could easily create a new iPod product that could have only their own Music and Podcasts apps on it but without an internal DAC or headphone amplifier to keep the cost down - just usb c output - or ideally usb c and optical audio output). The reason I’d prefer this to direct integration with other manufacturers’ systems is I love how my AppleTV 4K can be remote controlled from my iPhone (I’d want the new iPod to do the same). I know I can do much of this now with a usb c to usb b cable to my DAC but then I don’t have the remote capabilities or other hub abilities. Plus the way I’m suggesting could double as an Audiophile iPod when away from the home stereo just by unplugging and connecting a pair of usb c headphones, which look to be coming to the market soon. Apple should even get into that game by selling a usb c wired version of its AirPods Max with a built in quality 24/192 DAC.

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May 25, 2024 10:19 AM in response to Dudedelux

Hi..;-). How can you access Dolby Atmos high-res music via the Apple Music app if you are planning to use the Marantz AVR and the connected loudspeakers? I currently have a 6.1-setup. My original plan was to use my ipad connected via usb-cable to a dac and then analog out to the Marantz. Then I was looking into buying a streamer from Eversolo that supports the Apple Music app. And finally Marantz HEOS doesn’t support the Apple Music app. Are there any quality dacs or streamers that supports Dolby Atmos high-res music via the Apple Music app?

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Feb 13, 2023 9:11 PM in response to PompeyRob

Yes there is, however not ideal. Using the lightning to USB adapter from an iPhone or iPad to a USB DAC you can get full lossless from Apple Music. Many tutorials online. You can also do this with a computer but, the Sample Rate will not Change dynamically, thus using the iPhone or iPad does this. Airplay does in fact use lossless ALAC compression not Lossy AAC when streaming but is limited to 48khz sample rate.

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Nov 7, 2023 11:10 PM in response to Dudedelux

Since today there is no streamer app for Apple Music on any device the only way you can get the best resolution is getting a good DAC. I have a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 200M. an iPad Pro or Mac, good quality USB-C cable to connect the iPad to the DAC, I recommend the AudioQuest Cinnamon USB B to C Cable. Good AMP. I have the Rotel RB-1590 and finally a pair of good speakers the Klipsch Reference Premiere RP-600M and the Klipsch SPL-120 subwoofer, together sounds amazing in a 13’x12’ room. Don’t forget to get a good speakers cables and XLR cables. This is a basic gear for a good starting. Good luck and welcome to the very expensive Audiophile world


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