Raw, Color Profile, Apple Photo, saturation and inconsistencies

I'm somehow stumbling again on this subject because it appears to be fairly larger and more complex than what I've seen reported on this forum. I'm on a Mac Studio running Ventura 13.2.1 , connected to an Eizo CS2740 monitor. I report here for your info my findings. A picture shot with Canon RAW CR3 format on a Canon EOS 90D inspected straight from a SSD card inserted in the Mac shows no color profile attribute in the file inspector. The exif (trhu exiftool) shows a "sRGB" color space attribute among the "MakerNotes" attributes. If I copy it on the desktop, it gets a "Display P3" profile attribute, which is shown by the Apple file inspector. Curiously, the mini-preview in the file inspector on the SSD card shows an oversaturated image, whereas the preview of the copied file shows a correctly saturated image (see screen grab here: left the file preview from the SSD, right file preview on the copied file).

If I open both images with the Preview.app, both are equally oversaturated and match the left one above. If I import the picture in Photos.app it stay oversaturated. To get it appear "correctly" (e.g. as it does in Canon's own app "Digital Photo Professional" for instance) I have to open it with the RAWPower plugin and set the Vibrancy value to approx to -0.4. If at this stage I export a JPG version of the picture with "original color profile" set in the export dialog, I obtain a "correct" looking image with an sRGB IEC61966-2.1 profile associated...Rather weird. But the plot thickens further: I repeated the whole test with a CR2 Raw picture shot with a Canon EOS 70D, and guess what? The file shows consistently under all circumstances, not oversaturated at all, and by default it shows in Photos.app exactly the same as in Canon's own utility. All this happens to occur in spite of the color profile association which is exactly the same on CR2 files as with the CR3 file... I suspect that the problem is rooted at the RAW decoding/processing/interpretation done by Apple which is different by camera model, rather than by the sRGB / P3 discussion which was subject of the previous thread.

My 5 cents on he subject.

Mac Studio, macOS 13.2

Posted on Mar 31, 2023 5:06 AM

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Apr 4, 2023 8:21 AM in response to sekok

Hi sekok,


As we understand it, you have some concerns about color profiles on your Mac. To veriyf, have you already covered the steps below? Change a device’s color profile using ColorSync Utility on Mac - Apple Support


"You can use ColorSync Utility to change a device’s color profile.

  1. In the ColorSync Utility app  on your Mac, click Devices in the toolbar of the ColorSync Utility window.
  2. Click the arrow  beside the device group, then select a device.
  3. The device’s default (or factory) profile and its current profile are displayed.
  4. Click the Current Profile pop-up menu, choose Other, then find and select the new profile.


To see additional details about a device’s profile, click Open. You can select an item in the new window to display or modify information, such as individual color values.


You can also change a device’s profile using the app you use with the device. For example, you can use Displays settings to select a profile for your display.


Be sure to visit the manufacturer’s website to get the latest software for your device."


If you've covered that, to look into this further, you'll want to contact Apple with this link: Apple Support


Have a good one.

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Apr 5, 2023 3:21 AM in response to sekok

Another discovery: I preview my notorius CR3 picture with the finder inspector and guess what? Initially it's rendered correctly. But if I resize a bit the finder window the picture magically becomes oversaturated... This is just as crazy as it gets...







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Apr 5, 2023 10:25 AM in response to sekok

If you print a photo do you get the over saturation that you see on the screen? Try a test image like this one:



I uploaded a full sized version so you can drag it to your Desktop and try printing so see how it compares to what you see on the screen.



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Apr 4, 2023 9:13 AM in response to ryane77

Hi ryane77, thanks for your suggestion. From my understanding it doesn't look to be a profile issue at all (there is no device strictly speaking to which I can associate a profile). It looks like being an issue with the way CR3 Canon RAW type of files are shown. As a demonstration to that, CR2 Canon RAW files are displayed correctly as are jpeg previews extracted from a CR3 file using a tool such as e.g. exiftool. Furthermore, CR3 pictures on Affinity Photo, DxO PhotoLab 3 or even darktable look fine on my system. It seems to be just Apple Preview and Apple Photo that both shows CR3 files (and only them) oversaturated... I'll post a comment to Apple Support as well. Thanks.

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Apr 4, 2023 10:56 AM in response to Old Toad

Hi OldToad, unfortunately I can switch the screen profile to any of P3, Rec709 or sRGB and the oversaturation is still there. This issue (I reinstate) happens only with CR3 RAW format... I also double-checked what happens on both my Mac Studio with the Eizo monitor and on my MacBook Pro 14" 2021. No difference. I went ahead and sent the CR3 file to 2 iPhones: an old SE 1. generations with iOS 15.7.3 and a 12 mini with iOS 16.4. Curiously (fasten seat belts, please) both phones show the picture correctly in iMessages BUT if I save the picture in Photo, the SE will still show it correctly, whereas the 12 mini THAN over saturates it...


At this stage it would be interesting to find out if anyone out there can correctly preview a EOS90D CR3 Canon RAW picture on latest macOS and iOS, because the problem seems rooted there, rather then in color profile settings.

Cheers,

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Apr 5, 2023 9:39 AM in response to Old Toad

Yep, both are. I'll probably give a try, although I'm afraid to enter a maze with no exit. I'm also pondering to just log in a bug report. At this stage, to me it clearly looks as one, probably introduced with recent OS releases.

Thanks.

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Apr 5, 2023 10:48 AM in response to Old Toad

Thank you very much for the test file, very kind of you! I printed it and matches perfectly to what the Eizo shows. I'm not at all surprised, as I keep the whole chain calibrated with a Calibrite Colorchecker. Frankly up to recently I'd never had any issue with jpg, pgn, even Canon CR2 raw files shot on a Canon 70D, Blackmagic BRAW video files or even Canon H264 compressed .mov files in any application. Everything is just perfectly as expected. The full color managed chain works like a charm with the exception being the CR3 files from the Canon 90D. jpgs from the 90D are perfect. And the raw version is OK in all other apps that I use (Affinity, DxO etc.). I mean, I can perfectly live with such a bug, having found the workaround in RawPower I mentioned in my first post, and I can still develop CR3 RAW with my other apps which show no problem at all. I brought up the issue because I find practical to use Photos.app as a repository of my stuff and it is there where I first discovered the inconsistency.

Thanks again!

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Apr 6, 2023 12:26 AM in response to Old Toad

Just to extend the tests I went ahead and downloaded from dpreview some test pictures shot with other Canon cameras which generate CR3 RAW, such as e.g. Canon R5 and Canon R6. I than tested Apple Photo.app against Canon's own utility "Digital Photo Professional 4". Here are my findings: all of the above discussion is applicable to RAW pictures shot with all three cameras, i.e. all three are off, particularly in the greens, although to different degrees. The 90D being the worse, the R5 falling in between and the R6 being the most faithful out of the three, but still slightly off. At this point matter settled (at least for me).

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Raw, Color Profile, Apple Photo, saturation and inconsistencies

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