HomeKit Connection Issues

bgmeek wrote:

Again, sorry to hear things aren't sorted out for you.

So, you've disabled your DHCP server in favor of manually assigning IP addresses to each device? Sounds like a hassle so I'm mildly curious as to why you bother with that.

I think it might have been an attempt to fix this issue some while ago - I set it this way about a year ago.

Does your WiFi router also serve as your Ethernet hub, and does it treat the WiFi and Ethernet ports as a single LAN? I would assume so. FWIW, I've seen a few posts here reporting that the ATV4K reports much better performance when connected via WiFi than when using a direct Ethernet connection (adequate bandwidth for streaming movies in both cases, but like ~100Mbps on WiFi and ~50Mbps with Ethernet). Could be hardware or code optimization for the most common use case.

It’s all treated as a single LAN.

I know about WiFi possibly being faster, although some argument suggests even 100mbps Ethernet offer a more stable data stream. I do have Gb capability here (for both), But I'll try it on WiFi again just in case.

Finally, on the Private Wi-Fi Address issue, did you read that reddit post reporting that his HomePod mini was frequently using random Wi-Fi MAC addresses until he turned off the feature on his iPhone? That seems like a massive bug that Apple would've fixed by now, but here we are learning that turning the dern feature off stabilizes HomePod mini (and possibly HomePod 2) functions.

Yes, was trying to get my head around that, I couldn’t understand how turning off the function in an iPhone would affect other devices, until I saw the bit about it transferring during the setup process.

While setting up my own HomePod minis, I only recall that the HomePod grabbed the network settings of the currently active connection of my iPhone - obviously this might choke if the iPhone's active connection had been manually configured - did the setup then prompt you to assign a useable IP address to each HomePod?

The pods were assigned their own addresses from the DHCP server (I split the range, so below 100 I could set static, 101-254 was still auto DHCP).

I understand you're confident that you've set everything up correctly, but even so, I would personally worry that Apple's QA on HomePods would be sorely lacking on such a configuration. If I were you, I'd go ahead and reactivate a DHCP server with a range of available addresses (or addresses specifically assigned to the mini's MAC addresses) to service the HomePods (and the occassional guest :-).

Well, I’ve been messing around again today. I have an upgraded router here, it’s similar to the one my ISP provides, but it’s the ‘business’ version. I originally got this so I could set ‘bridge’ mode while I tried out a Mesh network (they were cheap ones that didn’t allow me to avoid double NAT, I abandoned using these a while back).

Anyhow, I’ve been rooting around the settings some more, and discovered some interesting things.

Firstly, I found it has it’s own private address system, named differently of course, so I was unaware it exists (BT here call it ULA - Universal Local Address). So I’ve now turned that off (it was on).

I’ve also discovered I can fix the IPs within the router for each device, so I let it allocated an IP to each device, and then edited each device to lock the IP to it, and leave the devices themselves in a more normal auto DHCP setup.

I’m hoping that preventing the addresses, and ID, from changing this way, might be a possible fix. I'll report back if it does. Otherwise I'm just about out of ideas.

Cheers

Andy

I saw this reddit post reporting that his HomePod mini was frequently using new Wi-Fi MAC addresses until he turned off the "Private Wi-Fi Address" feature for his home network and did a hard reset on his HomePod mini. Here's the link: https://www.reddit.com/r/HomeKit/comments/rxkcqh/homepod_mini_private_address/.

I periodically rant about the Private Wi-Fi Address feature introduced with iOS 14, but rarely get feedback from folks with whether or not turning the feature off properly fixes the flakiness.

bgmeek wrote:

• Thanks for the update and the hopeful news.

Just a further update, since my last posting, the setup has been performing perfectly.

So just to summarise, to achieve that I did the following.

• Turned off Private WiFi Address in my iPhone, then Reset my HomePods.
• Turned off Private WiFi Address on all my devices for the local network.
• Reset my network from Manual IP settings, to using normal DHCP.
• Set the router to retain the assigned IP address for each device (so they never change again).
• Discovered the Unique Local Address setting (seems to be their version of Private Wifi Address) in my router (BT Business Hub 6), and disabled it. This could perhaps be more significant than the iPhone setting?
• Set my HomePods as a Stereo Pair.
• Set the HomePods as the default speakers form Lounge Apple TV (as an aside, I also change the built in room from Living Room to Lounge instead).

Hope that helps someone.

Cheers.

Timothy Etherington wrote:

UPDATE:

I read bgmeek's link at Reddit and did what they suggested.

Bottom line:

When you set up your HomePod mini, it copies the settings from your iPhone. If you have Private IP Address Tracking turned on for the WiFi network on your iPhone, it appears to send that setting to the HomePod which makes the HomePod stupid.

The fix is to turn off Private IP Address Tracking on your iPhone, hard reset the HomePod and set it up again. This should make your HomePod not stupid.

Current Results:

So far so good. My doorbell hasn't gone offline since I reset the HomePod minis and my wife took her iPad Air out of town with her for the weekend. When she came home she had no problem getting on line.

Obligatory Rant:

The symptoms and the resolution are not obvious. I thought it was a problem with my router. This seems like an easy fix for Apple. Just don't copy Private IP Address Tracking settings when you set up the HomePod.

That's my point though. I've tried that, and it didn't fix anything. They're just the same after the reset with Private IP turned off.

I've given up on trying to fix it now, and just put my entire home network back to standard settings (Auto DHCP, single SSID etc.) and everything is working just the same.

Clearly there is a/are some bug(s) in the networking of the HomePods somewhere. It seems to be down to pure luck whether you have a particular network configuration that works or not.

Looking around various discussions, the things that fail do seem to vary, but also seem very tricky to get working right, if at all. Certainly it's not practical to keep trying different hardware, and the average user should not be having to mess around like this for products that should 'just work'.

bgmeek wrote:

Thanks very much for the update. As to your reference to the ULA setting... I don't think it means what you think it means :-).

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_local_address:

A unique local address (ULA) [1] is an Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) address in the address range fc00::/7.[2] These addresses are non-globally reachable[3] (routable only within the scope of private networks, but not the global IPv6 Internet). For this reason, ULAs are somewhat analogous to IPv4 private network addressing, but with significant differences. Unique local addresses may be used freely, without centralized registration, inside a single site or organization or spanning a limited number of sites or organizations.

Also, the reference to 'IPv4 private network addressing' is about IPv4 network numbers reserved for private behind-the-firewall devices (ie 10.0.0.0). Apple's PWA is about HARDWARE addresses (God knows why).

Although I hadn't actually taken the time to look it up properly (although now I have ;-)), I did appreciate that it wasn't IPv4, or exactly the same thing as the Apple private Wifi system (which course is actually the MAC)

However, the information you linked to might suggest that there could be a possible something here, as it does say the IPv6 and IPv4 private network systems are pretty similar in what they are doing, albeit for their respective protocols.

I was simply hoping that having already turned off the Apple private address system, and that hadn't fixed the issue, that turning off the IPv6 system might do it. So far it does seem to have succeeded. Looking at some hidden data, the HomePods certainly contain an IPv6 address, despite the router telling me they are not IPv6 capable!

I'm wondering if it could be any/all of these being the cause of the issues (rather than a single cause, like the Apple PWA)? Surely the network system needs to correlate the IP addresses (for both IPv4 and IPv6) with the MAC address of the devices. If any of those change, such as a DHCP lease renewal, and a new IP being allocated, then that has to be matched with the existing IPv6 address and the MAC. With the examples we have here, trying to allocate random private addresses for all three, then no wonder we're having trouble.

Perhaps it is a matter of disabling all of them on a local network. Of course it's different if you're mobile, and using a public network, but then you probably wouldn't have an AppleTv and HomePod stereo pair set out while sat in a cafe!

It's certainly a massive can of worms we have here.

Sorry to hear that turning OFF the Private Wi-Fi Address (NOT "Private IP") for your home network SSID didn't sort things out for you. Did you leave the setting turned off?

You see, when a device changes its Wi-Fi MAC address it gets a new IP address from your WiFi router, and every other device that was communicating with it locally has to learn where it went. All devices keep a cache of MAC address-to-IP address mappings called an ARP table, and higher-level apps, like Home Kit, need to adapt as well to some extent. What this tells me is that a quick test of turning off the (f-ing useless) Private Wi-Fi Address feature may not actually fix everything right away, since peer devices may retain outdated info about what's where and therefore have connection issues - all one does with the quick test is invoke a few more address changes in the near term.

I don't doubt that Apple has multiple issues around WiFi. For as long as I've used WiFi at home, Apple devices have been the most fragile. I remember having rock-solid WiFi 20 years ago with over a dozen trouble-free devices online, but only my wife's MacBook would constantly lose its Internet connection!

In any case, turn the Private Wi-Fi Address feature off on your home network (the only downside is a BS "Privacy Warning"). This way, once things stabilize there won't be any more random MAC address changes moving forward to confuse things.

Dre8 wrote:

New HomePod was having issues since day 1. Ended up resetting it 6 times. 3 on the first night and the other three over time.

[...]

Today I read this post and turning off private WiFi address literally fixed the HomePod intermittently disconnecting from my WiFi.

Hi there, thanks for the update. I swear I've felt like a voice screaming in the wilderness about this "Private Wi-Fi Address" issue. The whole 'feature' is a solution in search of a problem, but the bleed over into HomePod reliability is just sad. C'mon Apple! It's an easy fix.

bgmeek wrote:

• Thanks for the update and the hopeful news.

I do hope that one of the Apple-employed Community Specialists who monitors these forums will insist that, or at least strongly encourage, HomePod and iOS product team members on the support, QA and/or engineering side to read these multiple threads about how effing unreliable HomePods are perceived to be because of the unnecessary-and-poorly implemented iOS "Private Wi-Fi Address" feature (call it "PWFA"). We've got a serious customer satisfaction issue here!

In my not-so-humble opinion, the PWFA feature should:

Default to OFF or at least provide a global ON/OFF switch (rather than just network-by-network).

• Not alarm ignorant users with the dern "Privacy Warning" when someone turns it OFF on their network.

• Be completely DISABLED on HomePods (and also Apple TV devices if it activates there too). The fact that HomePods use the feature if their configuring-iPhone still has PWFA set in the default "ON" state is a BUG.

Finally, it would be cool if Apple Support could update this article: Use private Wi-Fi addresses on iPhone, iPad, iPod touch, and Apple Watch - Apple Support, to explain in sufficient technical detail, about the 'privacy risk' of using the same WiFi MAC address on public networks (let alone on private and business WiFi networks that are often setup to only grant connections to a list of known/approved MAC addrs).

[stepping down from soapbox]

Thanks.

Yes, it’s a bit of a mess. It’s also implied that as they don’t include the function on static devices (i.e. AppleTVs, desktop Macs etc.), then it’s not at all necessary on a home network. So as you say, it should be disabled by default - certainly for a known home network, and only active when you’re connecting to unknown networks. It certainly doesn’t need the annoying security alert when I disable it on my home network, that’s for sure.

It would be less annoying to default with it off, and ask if you want to activate it when logging into a new network.

I must admit, I didn’t even know it existed until I started looking for solutions to this problem.

Cheers,

Andy

[i’ll help put the soapbox away ;-)]

New HomePod was having issues since day 1. Ended up resetting it 6 times. 3 on the first night and the other three over time.

Finally restored my iPhone, setup as new. In the mean time I also had my iPhone 14 pro max replaced and the WiFi router.

Change HomePod locations right next to the router.

Today I read this post and turning off private WiFi address literally fixed the HomePod intermittently disconnecting from my WiFi.

It seems like a lot of work to have to do, but perhaps you could set up IPv4 address reservations for each of your devices in your router so they always get the same addresses.

tt2

To get the attention of the engineers for homepod, it’s best to submit feedback: Feedback - HomePod

Thanks very much for the update. As to your reference to the ULA setting... I don't think it means what you think it means :-).

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unique_local_address:

A unique local address (ULA) [1] is an Internet Protocol version 6 (IPv6) address in the address range fc00::/7.[2] These addresses are non-globally reachable[3] (routable only within the scope of private networks, but not the global IPv6 Internet). For this reason, ULAs are somewhat analogous to IPv4 private network addressing, but with significant differences. Unique local addresses may be used freely, without centralized registration, inside a single site or organization or spanning a limited number of sites or organizations.

Also, the reference to 'IPv4 private network addressing' is about IPv4 network numbers reserved for private behind-the-firewall devices (ie 10.0.0.0). Apple's PWA is about HARDWARE addresses (God knows why).

I've been attempting to get my Minis reliable here too, all to no avail so far. I get the 'Unable to set Timers' message frequently (although I don't use them, they are an indication that something ain't right), but not always on all devices. I also get the Right speaker only disconnecting for a few seconds while playing as the default speakers on the Apple TV 4K here (When connected as the alternate speaker, it's fine).

There's also the random times that Siri might not always work as expected.

I've tried all sorts of the remedies read about on here and other forums too. So far I've tried:

Assigning fixed IPs to the HomePods (using the router to set a fixed IP), all my home network is on manual IPs anyway (I use a set range for the fixed IPs, and then a higher range for the DHCP to allow ad-hoc devices).

I've tried splitting down my WiFi network, from the normal (and recommended by Apple), single SSID, to one for each bandwidth and AP (I have a main router, and slave for extending into the garden area).

I've tried the resetting the HomePods with my iPhone set with Private Wifi off.

Multiple reboots.

In the end though, nothing has made any difference.

It shouldn't be this hard to get them working right should it?

bgmeek wrote:

Sorry to hear that turning OFF the Private Wi-Fi Address (NOT "Private IP") for your home network SSID didn't sort things out for you. Did you leave the setting turned off?

Yes, it's actually been turned off on all the devices for some time.

However, I've read a bit about turning it off on the network, but as far as I can see, that isn't possible. It seems to be device specific - so I can turn it off on my iPhones and iPads, but it doesn't exist on my iMac. I'm guessing it's designed for mobile devices only.

You see, when a device changes its Wi-Fi MAC address it gets a new IP address from your WiFi router, and every other device that was communicating with it locally has to learn where it went. All devices keep a cache of MAC address-to-IP address mappings called an ARP table, and higher-level apps, like Home Kit, need to adapt as well to some extent. What this tells me is that a quick test of turning off the (f-ing useless) Private Wi-Fi Address feature may not actually fix everything right away, since peer devices may retain outdated info about what's where and therefore have connection issues - all one does with the quick test is invoke a few more address changes in the near term.

Yes, got that. All my devices had been on fixed IP addresses, with manual settings for some time before this test. Nothing else was changing. I was not using the Router's DHCP server.

I don't doubt that Apple has multiple issues around WiFi. For as long as I've used WiFi at home, Apple devices have been the most fragile. I remember having rock-solid WiFi 20 years ago with over a dozen trouble-free devices online, but only my wife's MacBook would constantly lose its Internet connection!

In any case, turn the Private Wi-Fi Address feature off on your home network (the only downside is a BS "Privacy Warning"). This way, once things stabilize there won't be any more random MAC address changes moving forward to confuse things.

But it doesn't turn off for the whole network, only on that device, and only on that network.

But, as said, I had locked down my entire network with manual settings, and fixed IPs, and turned off the Private IP on all supported devices long before this particular test. The only devices to change in this test, were the HomePods. I have also tried them with both a fixed, and a dynamic IP address, without any difference.

All I'm saying is, some of these tricks may work for some. I suppose there's many out there that don't even suffer with issues at all, and some that just give up. I suspect there's a small specific range of configurations that has issues - perhaps a specific Wifi system chipset, along with a specific setup of two devices in stereo pair (it's a fairly recent addition as a feature).