Previous 1 2 3 Next 34 Replies Latest reply: Aug 24, 2010 2:57 AM by Henrik Holmegaard
mashby Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
I'm looking to do an Large Format Brochure (11" x 17") single fold and I've been using Pages for the mock up and layout. I was thinking that I would need someone to recreate the design in Quark, or Pagemaker, but now I'm wondering if I can do it all in Pages.

The printer that I plan on using is PSPrint (http://www.psprint.com/) and according to their offset printing specs and template, I just have to provide them with a 300dpi PDF. From what I've tested, exporting to PDF with quality set at "Best" I get a 300dpi file.

I haven't tested my output with photographs yet since we haven't purchased the final images and are using comps, but am I wrong in thinking that Pages is good enough for this project?

Template: http://www.psprint.com/DOWNLOAD/templates/brochures/brochurehalffold_11x17front.pdf

Thanks in advance!

27" iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.4), 2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (33,560 points)
    Pages will render any transparency, reflections, shadows at 72dpi.

    It is also extremely difficult to color manage and ensure all your text and images are cmyk and not rgb.

    You have to be very careful to make sure all vector black images, such as text is not a cmyk cocktail but stays 100% k.

    Whilst it is not impossible, if you avoid problem areas and do a lot of detailed checking both before and after rendering to .pdf, it can be done. Personally I wouldn't use it.

    Peter
  • fruhulda Level 6 Level 6 (15,120 points)
    Look at this site _http://i-work-in-pages.blogspot.com/_ . The author is using Pages for a magazine and for him it does work.
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (33,560 points)
    I spoke to him and he seems confused about what is going on in the color management, so it seems to me he is just coasting in on a minimal print job that doesn't stray into the minefields.

    As he is working closely with the printer the printer is probably helping him over the line. Its something printers do. If the client doesn't follow how it works, just fix it, and keep them happy.

    Peter
  • Henrik Holmegaard Level 3 Level 3 (575 points)
    It is always challenging to match CMYK colors 100% on paper. Mixing colors on the computer can be challenging, namely when you are trying to translate specific colors to work in a four-color printing process. However, when color matching is critical, you should use a CMYK chart and enter the values that best reflect the color you are trying to reach.


    http://www.psprint.com/helpcenter/preparingartwork_files/colorquality/index.asp#3


    These people probably home some sort of printing hardware, but they have no idea whatsoever about device independent colour imaging. The RIP maybe antidiluvian, with no ICC frontend. They are talking about accepting native files from Adobe PageMaker, and the most recent version of QuarkXPress in the shop may be 4 with the QuarkCMS disabled. Try a more professionally-sounding prepress shop.

    In general, as in anything else, you need to know what you are doing, or you need someone to help you who in fact does. This means that they need to be able to intelligibly address issues of ICC colour management and transparency. Design in Pages, save out as PDF, and let the prepress technician flatten transparency.

    /hh
  • Henrik Holmegaard Level 3 Level 3 (575 points)
    The author is using Pages


    Igen, det er et dårligt råd at udskrive PostScript til disk, fordi PostScript ikke støtter transparens og heller ikke støtter ICC-profiler. Det ville hjælpe, hvis du interesserede dig for faktiske tekniske forhold. Det er ikke nok at være sød og rar; vil man hjælpe andre mennesker over vejen, så skal man selv kunne trafikreglerne, for ellers begge de ganske enkelt kørt over.

    Henrik
  • mashby Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Thanks guys for all the input!

    @PeterBreis0807 - Thank you for such a detailed answer. I didn't think about the color matching. Even though I'm not using reflections and transparencies, I have my doubts and appreciate your frankness. Not the answer I wanted, but exactly the answer I needed. Thank you.

    @Henrik Holmegaard - I appreciate your insight into the printer. Talk about going beyond the call of duty. Thank you.
  • mashby Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
    Can you give me a little bit more detail on the workflow? I was planning on having to re-design the entire thing in Quark, or Pagemaker, but it sounds as if that's not necessary.

    1. I design the layout in pages and export a PDF "Best" file

    2. Pre-press reviews the PDF and does what?

    3. They submit what to the printer?

    Thank you in advance!
  • fruhulda Level 6 Level 6 (15,120 points)
    Henrik, om du säger så så är det väl så. Man behöver inte vara expert i ett område för att tala om var man kan läsa annan information. Den som ställer frågan får skaffa sig sin egen uppfattning.
  • PeterBreis0807 Level 7 Level 7 (33,560 points)
    Henrik Holmegaard wrote:
    Design in Pages, save out as PDF, and let the prepress technician flatten transparency.


    Henrik

    There is no way to save out of Pages to pdf without flattening the transparency. And that is the root of the problem.

    If you know how, detail it and save us all some grief.

    Peter
  • Lea Elizabeth Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    I produce a quarterly magazine using pages 2006. In the Page layout window I set the scale to 75% and this gives me a document at a resolution of 300dpi which is industry standard.
    My printers tell me it is 300dpi.
    You will find that you have to use a larger font size than you would normally. I use size 12 for normal text. I export at 'best' for pdf.
    Hope this helps.

    Have just bought a new macbook pro and wonder about buying iWork 09 or waiting for 10 but that is another question.
  • fruhulda Level 6 Level 6 (15,120 points)
    Lea Elizabeth wrote:
    I produce a quarterly magazine using pages 2006. In the Page layout window I set the scale to 75% and this gives me a document at a resolution of 300dpi which is industry standard.


    Do you mean the layout window in the printer preview? I don't understand what you refer to as Pages Layout window.

    My printers tell me it is 300dpi.
    You will find that you have to use a larger font size than you would normally. I use size 12 for normal text. I export at 'best' for pdf.
    Hope this helps.

    Have just bought a new macbook pro and wonder about buying iWork 09 or waiting for 10 but that is another question.


    Yes it is another question. As rumour goes wait a few more month before you decide to buy a newer iWork. You could always try out the trial version of iWork09 but you can't save in Pages06 only 08 and 09.
  • Henrik Holmegaard Level 3 Level 3 (575 points)
    om du säger så så är det väl så. Man behöver inte vara expert i ett område för att tala om var man kan läsa annan information


    Misforstå mig ikke. Det handler om at leverandøren skal levere et produkt, der ikke lader slutbrugeren foretage sig ting, der er fundamenalt teknisk forkert, og at slutbrugeren (du og jeg) ikke bygger sin produktforståelse på en teknisk myte, men på tekniske fakta. Det er der ved at blive sat en ordentlig dagsorden for i Nordeuropa.

    Venlig hilsen,
    Henrik
  • Lea Elizabeth Level 1 Level 1 (5 points)
    fruhulda wrote:
    Do you mean the layout window in the printer preview? I don't understand what you refer to as Pages Layout window.


    I have been using Pages 06 since 2006 on an ibook and I made a template page A5 (metric New Zealand)
    1 choose blank page. Go to File/page setup.Choose your page size or in drop down menu manage custom sizes. When you have make your size click OK. Again in the page set up window choose Orientation and then notice 'scale'. change 100% to 75% for 300 dpi.
    Hope that helps.

    Thanks for comments on Pages 09/10
  • Henrik Holmegaard Level 3 Level 3 (575 points)
    There is no way to save out of Pages to pdf without flattening the transparency.


    Proposition: In any save path, transparency is flattened in saving.

    Test of proposition: Apple Pages '08 and Apple Mac OS X 10.4.11 as platform.

    1. Launch system software and application software.

    2. Insert first composition frame, select Apple Hoefler antiqua at 24 US pt, enter 'Type', leave default colour, leave default opacity.

    3. Insert second composition frame, select Apple Hoefler antiqua at 24 US pt, enter 'Transparency', change default colour to rubrication red, change opacity to 50%.

    4. Select e.g. File > Print > PDF > Save as PDF, name file 'Test', and select folder.

    5. Launch Acrobat Professional 6 (first version with ISO 15930 PDF/X-3 verification), check the PDF version (: 1.4), check at high magnification (: no rasterisation), check that the source character string can be synthesised (: it can).

    As posted previously, if transparency is applied, PDF 1.4 is automatically configured unless the path is ISO 15930 PDF/X-3 that does not support transparency (PDF 1.3 has an opaque imaging model, not a transparency imaging model). This is a simplistic test, but it is nonetheless a test.

    Because Apple Quartz has applied transparency since 2000, and because there the matrix of system versions and application versions is somewhat monstrous, the notion of testing is somewhat notional .

    /hh
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