I was recently swindled by Apple Pay. I don't use Apple Pay. After receiving a text message saying that it was registered with Apple Pay, I received 20 payment texts for the same amount. I immediately applied for a card suspension at the bank. And I asked for the cancellation of the approval.However, the bank said it could not cancel the approval. I don't understand this situation right now Can Apple Pay cancel the approval?
The text messages were not from Apple or Apple Pay.
Apple Pay will never send you a text message for any reason.
You are being scammed. Ignore the text messages and block the number it is not a real charge and they are trying to get you to pay them.
Apple Pay requires your interaction and approval to even being to work. There is no possible wya for it to happen without your knowledge.
click here ➜ Recognize and avoid phishing messages, phony support calls, and other scams - Apple Support
Lev945 wrote:
So I spoke with the credit card security and Apple's customer service, which specifically claimed that they don't have any of the information, and I have no reason to go to the police as they won't release any information to any authority claiming that they basically don't have any as they don't collect it. Are you suggesting that Apple customer service is lying?
I'm saying that, until Apple has a subpoena, they are not going to release any information. I think it's also possible that they don't keep information on failed attempts to add a card. As there is a perfectly good system in place to prevent cards from being added fraudulently (which worked perfectly for you), there is really no need to.
No one but you seems to be interested in making this happen. The credit card companies aren't going to pursue failed attempts at using a credit card. What is the upside for them? Apple has no financial or legal interest in doing so. And, the police certainly are not going to spend much time chasing down people who failed to commit fraud. While attempted fraud may be a crime (NAL), at this level, it's not likely to be anyone's priority.
I suggest that you write a letter (on paper and send it with a stamp) to Apple Corporate registering your concerns.
IdrisSeabright wrote:
Lev945 wrote:
So I spoke with the credit card security and Apple's customer service, which specifically claimed that they don't have any of the information, and I have no reason to go to the police as they won't release any information to any authority claiming that they basically don't have any as they don't collect it. Are you suggesting that Apple customer service is lying?
I'm saying that, until Apple has a subpoena, they are not going to release any information. I think it's also possible that they don't keep information on failed attempts to add a card. As there is a perfectly good system in place to prevent cards from being added fraudulently (which worked perfectly for you), there is really no need to.
No one but you seems to be interested in making this happen. The credit card companies aren't going to pursue failed attempts at using a credit card. What is the upside for them? Apple has no financial or legal interest in doing so. And, the police certainly are not going to spend much time chasing down people who failed to commit fraud. While attempted fraud may be a crime (NAL), at this level, it's not likely to be anyone's priority.
I suggest that you write a letter (on paper and send it with a stamp) to Apple Corporate registering your concerns.
So if somebody breaks into your car but fails to start it then there is no crime? Or if somebody attempts to break into your house but fails to break the door it's a not a crime either, right?
Legally the crime occurred already when somebody have stolen my credit card details. And crime have occurred second time when using this information the criminal tried to add it to their ApplePay account, so a third crime could be performed.
It makes no sense to claim that there is any privacy issue in sending the details of the phone to the credit card company that already has all these details and much more. That is unless the process is done not by the actual credit card holder, but by a criminal. And in that case arguing for privacy and anonymity of the criminal is beyond common sense.
The way I see it, the information about the phone should be sent to the credit card company every time as part of the request Apple sends to the issuer on any attempt to add the card. That will make tracking the criminals much easier, thus when it's later determined that the failed attempt is not a simple mistake, but something done by a criminal, it will require much less resources from the law enforcement to catch the criminal.
Lev945 wrote:
Legally the crime occurred already when somebody have stolen my credit card details. And crime have occurred second time when using this information the criminal tried to add it to their ApplePay account, so a third crime could be performed.
So, report that crime to the police. If they believe that getting information from Apple will help them, they will ask for it.
It makes no sense to claim that there is any privacy issue in sending the details of the phone to the credit card company that already has all these details and much more. That is unless the process is done not by the actual credit card holder, but by a criminal.
If they already have the data, why does Apple need to send it?
And in that case arguing for privacy and anonymity of the criminal is beyond common sense.
I don't know what country you live in, but in the U.S., one is innocent until proven guilty. We do not lose our rights because we have been accused of a crime. That's why things like warrants and subpoenas are part of our justice system.
The way I see it, the information about the phone should be sent to the credit card company every time as part of the request Apple sends to the issuer on any attempt to add the card. That will make tracking the criminals much easier, thus when it's later determined that the failed attempt is not a simple mistake, but something done by a criminal, it will require much less resources from the law enforcement to catch the criminal.
So, we all should be surveilled just in case one of us commits a crime? Thank you, no.
Lev945 wrote:
Yes, the credit card company security system worked, not that of Apple.
As the credit card is the only financial entity involved here, things are working exactly the way they are supposed to.
My issue is with Apple, which doesn't provide the information of the phone of the criminal that attempted to add the card. I would expect the full details of the person that tries to add a credit card to be communicated to the credit card provider, and generally for Apple to cooperate with law enforcement to mitigate such cases.
Apple doesn't have information that it's a crime. All they know is someone tried to add a card and it failed. I've tried to add cards and messed up the process. Should Apple be notifying my card issuer?
If the crime is reported to the police and if the police decide to investigate, they will be able to subpoena Apple for information. You don't know that's not happening. But, until Apple receives such an official request, they aren't even allowed to start giving out personal information to a third party.
IdrisSeabright wrote:
Lev945 wrote:
Yes, the credit card company security system worked, not that of Apple.
As the credit card is the only financial entity involved here, things are working exactly the way they are supposed to.
My issue is with Apple, which doesn't provide the information of the phone of the criminal that attempted to add the card. I would expect the full details of the person that tries to add a credit card to be communicated to the credit card provider, and generally for Apple to cooperate with law enforcement to mitigate such cases.
Apple doesn't have information that it's a crime. All they know is someone tried to add a card and it failed. I've tried to add cards and messed up the process. Should Apple be notifying my card issuer?
It should provide all the information of the phone that tries to to add the card to the credit card company during that stage, so that the credit card company knows who is trying to add the card. It then can do it's own decisions how to handle that.
Also if you tried to add 1 card and it failed that one thing. But if you were adding 10 or 20 different cards from different banks or credit card companies on the same phone, especially with different names, then Apple itself should start asking questions. Not expect that each credit card company will work on it's own, since they don't have this information, as they don't know that it's the same person who tries for some reason to add 20 cards of different people to his ApplePay account. But Apple does know about it.
If the crime is reported to the police and if the police decide to investigate, they will be able to subpoena Apple for information. You don't know that's not happening. But, until Apple receives such an official request, they aren't even allowed to start giving out personal information to a third party.
So I spoke with the credit card security and Apple's customer service, which specifically claimed that they don't have any of the information, and I have no reason to go to the police as they won't release any information to any authority claiming that they basically don't have any as they don't collect it. Are you suggesting that Apple customer service is lying?
>>So I spoke with the credit card security and Apple's customer service, which specifically claimed that they don't have any of the information, and I have no reason to go to the police as they won't release any information to any authority claiming that they basically don't have any as they don't collect it. Are you suggesting that Apple customer service is lying?<<
Im not suggesting anything. I don’t know who said what. But the fact is the bank has the information to identify the device.
Here is some of the information that is shared as quoted from the support article linked below.
>>Information that you provide about your card, whether certain device settings are enabled, and device use patterns—such as the percent of time the device is in motion and the approximate number of calls you make per week—may be sent to Apple to determine your eligibility to enable Apple Pay. Information may also be provided by Apple to your card issuer, payment network, or any providers authorized by your card issuer to enable Apple Pay, to determine the eligibility of your card, to set up your card with Apple Pay, and to prevent fraud.<<
Apple Pay security and privacy overview - Apple Support
Apple doesn’t disclose all the information that is provided to the bank, so fraudulent users are prevented from learning the key details shared to the bank.
Lev945 wrote:
Security department of my credit card company told me that Apple only provided them basic information about the phone, like it's model. That's not something that could be used to easily locate the criminal.
Your credit card company is not a law enforcement agency. It is not their job to "easily locate the criminal". They could (but most likely will not) file a complaint with law enforcement. If they do, the law enforcement agency would need to submit the proper legal requests to Apple for any information Apple might have. And then the law enforcement agency, not the credit card company, not Apple, not you, would pursue the evidence.
I don't use Apple Pay. But I've already received 20 of the same approval texts. Someone stole my card and used Apple Pay. The credit card company said it was difficult to cancel the approval because it was paid with Apple Pay. Then where should I cancel the approval?
I don't use Apple Pay. Someone stole my credit card. As soon as I received the payment text, I asked the credit card company to cancel the approval. However, the credit card company said it was difficult to cancel the approval because the payment was made through Apple Pay. Do you understand this situation now?
This is a text message from the bank that the payment has been completed with Apple Pay. Someone stole my card and registered it on Apple Pay. And I made 20 payments. Is this something that can happen?
You called the number on the back of the bank card or contacted your local bank to confirm it’s from your bank, correct?
You did not use a number from the text did you?
Where did the phone number you called come from?
I'm in a similar situation - somebody have stolen my credit card number and tried to add it to his/her ApplePay account. Luckily since it's AMEX card the thief was missing the CVC number, the addition of the card failed. Thus it was caught by my credit card company, and I had to cancel the credit card and issue a new one.
However there was ZERO cooperation on the Apple's side - they refused to provide any details regarding the person that have stolen my credit card details and tried to add it into their ApplePay account, and even though they surely could get all the information that could help locate the thief - i.e. it's AppleID, IP address, location, cell phone number etc. they claimed that they can't locate it.
Looks like ApplePay is fraudsters best friend. They even had the nerve to claim that it's all my fault that somebody have stolen my credit card number. If Apple indeed don't keep full logs of the addition of the cards to user's accounts, it surely endorses these illegal activities, as it allows it to happen in an anonymous way, and then to hide behind the ApplePay service.
I'm quite disappointed from Apple to say the least...
You are operating and coming to conclusions using your assumptions to be fact. If we were in a more legal environment, a professional would say >you’re assuming facts that aren’t in evidence.<
If you want to come to the discussion with an open mind and leave false assumptions at the door, I’m patient, a former college instructor, and have knowledge in financial matters and what your experiencing and greatly frustrated by.
Apple is not a bank, under what and whose authority do they share your personal information? Apple has to comply with state regulations by laws regarding your privacy and confidentiality of your information.So, just to be clear, you’re advocating Apple do what’s most convenient for you, not what they do to protect your privacy. Is this your stance?
Banks on the other hand operate under different rules and regulations brought forth after 9/11. Most namely the Patriot Act which is in place to help protect Americans against terrorism, credit card fraud, identity theft, money laundering and many other fraudulent activities. So, just to be clear, so that your convenience isn’t sacrificed, these laws and regulations should be abolished? Is this your stance?
There is no privacy issues in sharing information with the credit card companies - that already have ALL that information to begin with. That is my stance. What sort of privacy are you advocating for protection here, and of whom? Mine, or the thief's?
Apple Pay fraud
