MBP behaving "weird", many symptoms- don't know the cure

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Level 1

15 points

MBP behaving "weird", many symptoms- don't know the cure

Hello all and thanks for reading this.

Bought refurbished from Apple on 12/2007
15” MBP Santa Rosa
Mac OS X V 10.5.8
2.2 GHz Intel core 2 Duo
4 GB memory
Backing up 2 with Copy Carbon Cloner+ Time Machine to 2 OWC 1 TB Mercury Elite Pro "Classic" Quad Interface

I don’t know if the following info is relevant to solve the problem, but I surely hope so…

About 2 wks ago noticed some kind of noise inside for a while, it looked to me that it was coming from the HD (Fujitsu MHW2120BH, Available 28.92 GB), it was like some kind of rhythmic clicking noise. Went away after a while, back for a little while after about a week.
Then there were other "abnormalities", not all at the same time, so, whenever one of them occurred I either rebooted and it solved the problem, or it just stopped. Sometimes the computer was just sluggish and/or "delayed" (when typing/copying and pasting and so there was a short delay), other times the fan was overworking, others the memory was full too soon, windows, or part of them froze for a bit (or longer), the CPU was working very "hard", my computer is set up to wake up in the morning and lately instead of doing that, logging and start apps, it freezes at the “purple northern lights screen” (need to restart), and so. Since each of those can be acting like that while everything is OK, and then getting back to normal I wasn't worried, just monitoring.

At this moment, I am not running any "hungry/heavy" applications. I have Firefox with 2 windows open and about 20 tabs, none of them running videos or any other heavy graphics, Word, Excel each of them with 3-4 documents, none with heavy/consuming stuff, 1 Password and VMware with Windows XP and Palm Desktop running.
This "load" shouldn't be a problem usually.
Currently the CPU is working on: User around 57%, System 16%, Idle 37%, the fan is CONSTANTLY running on higher speed (both, L & R around 6000 RPM), Temps: HD 106F, CPU 202F) and memory: Wired around 800MB, Active 2.04GB, Inactive 376MB and Free 830MB.

I turned the computer off, let it cool for some hours and just turned it on again without any apps running except Word. Currently the CPU is working on: User around 1-4%, System around 2-4%, Idle around 92-97%, the fan is running at (both, L & R around 2000 RPM), Temps: HD 92F, CPU 102F and Memory: Wired around 450MB, Active 600GB, Inactive 70MB and Free 2.9GB.

Any direction I can take, any suggestions will be very appreciated.
Thank you in advance.
Saul

MBP 2.2 GHz Intel C 2 Duo, Mac OS X (10.5.8)

Posted on Aug 23, 2010 6:30 AM

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Answer 1

louie

Level 4

2,950 points

Aug 23, 2010 7:01 AM in response to GoldMiner

I would replace the hard drive, as most, if not all, the symptoms point to that.

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Answer 2

Aug 23, 2010 8:22 AM in response to GoldMiner

Agree w/louie.

Failing Hard Drive Sounds

How to Tell When Your Hard Drive is Going to Fail

!http://i50.tinypic.com/izvwo1.gif!

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Answer 3

Allan Jones

Level 9

68,690 points

Aug 23, 2010 12:01 PM in response to GoldMiner

Although the noise symptoms indeed sound like the hard drive is stringing a noose around its neck, look for other causes for overheating while you're at it.

There are several things you can do to mitigate heat issues:

1) You may have already done this but we need to make sure. Make certain that Activity Monitor's "Show" window reads "All Processes," not the default of "My Processes." The latter will often fail to pick up the real culprits in the search for runaway background processes.

Two big hitter are unneeded virus protection programs and third-party automated backup schemes. I don't find that Time Machine contributes to this mayhem.

I get the impression that FireFox with all its bells/whistles seems more taxing than Safari or Camino. The only new background process wrinkle with Safari I've encountered is the Top Site function that started with v4.X. Once invoked, it runs a process called "326 Safari Webpage Preview Fetcher" that eats a fair number of cycles. I use Safari Preferences to turn off the display of the Top Site icon and change the default of new tabs opening to Top Sites to something else. If you don't let the TS screen come up, the fetcher doesn't run.

2) Make certain your physical arrangement of the computer and your usage patterns are not contributing to overheating. Apple recommends against using the MBP on your lap or any surface that contacts the case bottom. The case bottom is part of the heat dissipation system and needs need air. If you need to use the computer in your lap, make a simple lap board from scrap plywood. The height of the rubber feet is usually enough to let the air move but, if you are playing graphics-intensive games, you may want to insert some 1/2-inch (13mm) spacers, or get a powered chill pad to help move heat away.

The main exhaust vent is under the display hinge on the back panel of the case. It must not be obstructed.

Here is an Apple article on temps but it does not list critical temps for any model:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1778

Seeing a CPU at 202F is alarming as the safety shutdown point is somewhere around 212F.

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Answer 4

GoldMiner Author

Level 1

15 points

Aug 23, 2010 12:41 PM in response to GoldMiner

Thank you all for the advice. I appreciate it!

"I would replace the hard drive, as most, if not all, the symptoms point to that."
Louie and BB, thanks. It's the first thing I thought. Since it started I started backing up twice a day instead of once a day and decided that if that is the problem I will let it die, unless all the other stuff around will be too much to put with.

Allan, thanks.
"Make certain that Activity Monitor's "Show" window reads "All Processes"
It does.

"Two big hitter are unneeded virus protection programs and third-party automated backup schemes. I don't find that Time Machine contributes to this mayhem."

No virus protection programs.
I do now twice a day backups. For the 1/2 hr. that it takes I quit Fire Fox and WMware (2 quite resources hungry apps) and for this 1/2 hr. or so the fan goes up, but when the bkp is done they get back to normal.
(Since I wrote this post the MBP went back to it's "quiet/nice" behavior)... (?!)

"...FireFox with all its bells/whistles seems more taxing than Safari or Camino"
I am sorry, but I don't succeed to get used to Safari (tried, but...). It may be something I "brought" with me from my PC-user-times.

"...physical arrangement of the computer and your usage patterns... The case bottom is part of the heat dissipation system and needs need air."
I indeed use it on my lap, but between my lap and the MBP there is a Lapinator Plus (using it for about 3 yrs and just LOVE it!!!)... 🙂.
In addition, I glued 4 (in each corner 1) 3/8" rubber spacers (come w/the Lapinator) AND in addition the back is resting on a 3/4" pad. So, there is plenty of air underneath (which, of course, doesn't mean that the MBP doesn't get hot from time to time (after all it IS a MBP)... 🙂.

If you also think that all the other stuff, beside the noise may be just part of the HD problem, then I will start relaxing. I am worried that when the time will come I will replace the HD and it won't solve the problems.

Should I start relaxing, or start worrying?... 🙂

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Answer 5

tjk

Level 9

51,116 points

Aug 23, 2010 1:22 PM in response to GoldMiner

GoldMiner wrote:
I do now twice a day backups.
Should I start relaxing, or start worrying?... 🙂

One thing to think about: if the HD is dying and corrupting data in the process, this backup scheme may be backing up corrupt data . . . . If you have important data, until you get this ironed out, I would think about doing a backup, confirming it's good, and then not backing up over it any more (backup to a different partition or HD).

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Answer 6

GoldMiner Author

Level 1

15 points

Aug 27, 2010 9:21 AM in response to tjk

Hello tjk.
"if the HD is dying and corrupting data in the process".
I think the HD is dying indeed but I don't understand the part of the corrupting data.
As far as my logic goes (and I may be lacking knowledge and/or information here, which in this case I would love to be "enlightened") the data is mainly in two areas: the written software that we buy/download and so, and the one I create (Word docs, emails and so).
If the written software is being corrupted, at some point it will stop working/malfuncioning and I can just re-install it.
If I create a document and it was saved, I backup at least twice a day, so, if at some point all/part of this data will be lost corrupted, I am going to be able to restore it from my backups.
Am I missing something here?

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Answer 7

S.U.

Level 6

9,595 points

Aug 27, 2010 11:43 AM in response to GoldMiner

Here's a utility that will give you a comprehensive view of the physical health of your hard drive:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32454

You can download the demo and run it several times for free.

If your drive is failing, you really can't trust it. Suppose the first copy of your document that you back up is corrupted? No matter how many backups you make, you may never have a good copy. It may well be that you will have good copies of older documents, but I wouldn't trust anything current.

If your drive is failing, it's time to shop for a replacement and have it on hand when the time comes to replace the dying drive, which I gather you don't plan to do until it is totally dead. It also wouldn't hurt to consider one of OWC's drives that you can buy with an enclosure. If you did that, you could install and update all your software on the new drive, and then migrate your data to it. When the old drive fails completely, you will be able to install the replacement drive with your stuff already on it.

Good luck!

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Answer 8

tjk

Level 9

51,116 points

Aug 27, 2010 5:22 PM in response to GoldMiner

GoldMiner wrote:
I think the HD is dying indeed but I don't understand the part of the corrupting data.
As far as my logic goes (and I may be lacking knowledge and/or information here, which in this case I would love to be "enlightened") the data is mainly in two areas: the written software that we buy/download and so, and the one I create (Word docs, emails and so).
If the written software is being corrupted, at some point it will stop working/malfuncioning and I can just re-install it.
If I create a document and it was saved, I backup at least twice a day, so, if at some point all/part of this data will be lost corrupted, I am going to be able to restore it from my backups.
Am I missing something here?

Sorry to say, but yes. Look at it like counterfeit money. You may think you have x amount of money, but when you go to cash it in, too bad. Same with data. You think you have a backup, but when you go to use it, you find it is "counterfeit" (corrupt), and what good does that do? Analogies are never perfect (or they wouldn't be analogies, they'd be the real thing), but in this case, the analogy is actually "better" than the reality. You may get by with counterfeit money for awhile, but once the data on your HD is corrupt ("counterfeit"), when you go to use it, it's not going to work (and it doesn't matter if it's applications or saved data).

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Answer 9

GoldMiner Author

Level 1

15 points

Aug 28, 2010 4:45 AM in response to GoldMiner

OK.
There are good news and bad news: the good ones: I used SMART utility (thanks ALOT S.U.). The test came out as 0 errors, everything with the HD is perfect (may it be that it started twice malfunctioning "a bit", stopped and went back to normal, that I need to run the test if and when it happens again? Maybe the noise originally came from something else and I am "blaming" the perfect HD?)
The bad ones (I think): we are back to square 1 and I have no idea what to do. BTW, also the symptoms "vanished" (you know it's like when you take the car to the shop and THEN all of a sudden the clunker shines and all working perfectly, like saying "Who ME?!) 🙂.
Is there anything I can do currently, you think, or I just need to put everything on hold and "call back" if and when the problems get back (holding fingers they don't)?

So, I guess no data is being corrupted for the moment?

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Answer 10

S.U.

Level 6

9,595 points

Aug 28, 2010 8:59 AM in response to GoldMiner

Have you tried running the extended version of the Apple Hardware Test, especially when the computer is malfunctioning? If the computer is freezing and malfunctioning while hot, then that is when when you need to run the tests and not when it's cold.

As for SMART Utility, it checks what it is designed to check, which may not be everything. I ran SMART Utility on a friend's hard drive which was exhibiting a lot of freezes and beach balls. SMART Utility passed the drive with no errors, but it wasn't too long after that that the drive vanished and could not be seen even by Disk Utility. So don't ever trust any test 100%.

Have you tried booting from your install disc and repairing your boot disk?

Don't assume no data is being corrupted. If the drive problems are intermittent, as electronic problems often are, data could be being corrupted intermittently. Occasionally boot from your CCC backup and take a look at your data.

Good luck!

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Answer 11

GoldMiner Author

Level 1

15 points

Sep 8, 2010 11:10 AM in response to GoldMiner

Hello.
Sorry didn't answer till now. My daughter just got married and my son came from abroad and stayed with us, so been kinda hectic lately. 🙂
S.U.
"Here's a utility that will give you a comprehensive view of the physical health of your hard drive:

http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/32454

You can download the demo and run it several times for free."

When I click on your link there is a message, no more versiontracker, now moved to cnet and it takes me to the Smart Utility app.

"Have you tried running the extended version of the Apple Hardware Test,"
I will and update here what the results are. (Although, since I posted everything is working just fine) (?!)

"Occasionally boot from your CCC backup and take a look at your data."
Doing it periodically, thanks.

As soon as I will have new info I will get back even if it's in some days, or a week or two.

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Answer 12

S.U.

Level 6

9,595 points

Sep 8, 2010 2:14 PM in response to GoldMiner

Thanks for letting me know the link was out of date. Fortunately, the demo is still good for 15 launches or 30 days, so you can still try it out for free.

A hard drive headed south can still work for a while. Take your time to evaluate it, and keep a good backup in the meantime.

Good luck!

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Answer 13

GoldMiner Author

Level 1

15 points

Sep 13, 2010 11:34 AM in response to S.U.

S.U.
Thanks for your help.
"Have you tried booting from your install disc and repairing your boot disk?"
Yes, I have done that some days ago.

I have run the extended version of the Apple Hardware Test during the last 2 nights, with the loop option. I understand that it runs constantly until either detects a problem or you stop it?

First night it ran for 8 hrs 15 min and did 7 passes. After I stopped it the message was "Testing was not completed". The same message after the 2nd night it ran for 10 hrs 17 min and did 8 passes.
So, I guess it means that it did not find any problems. (While it was running the fan worked pretty hard.)

Any ideas/suggestions?

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Answer 14

S.U.

Level 6

9,595 points

Sep 13, 2010 2:16 PM in response to GoldMiner

Again, no test is designed to test or catch everything, but it's encouraging that nothing has appeared so far. My fans also work pretty hard while running the AHT.

One thing did come to mind--have you tried reinstalling the OS? Or checking that all your third party software is fully compatible with your OS?

One friend had a lot of freezing and beach balls, and reinstalling and updating the OS seemed to be the cure--until the hard drive vanished. Here drive also had zero errors on SMART Utility, so I think that a drive can be heading south in such a way that it doesn't give any warning that can be detected in advance. In her case, I believe that her drive was corrupting the software and causing a lot of weird stuff.

If you have an extra external drive, it may be worth installing a fresh copy of the OS on it and then booting from it and seeing how the Mac runs that way. It would be interesting to see if your Mac continues with the same symptoms or not.

You could run from your CCC clone and see what happens, but there is a possibility that if you do have corrupted software, the clone would too.

Good luck!

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Answer 15

GoldMiner Author

Level 1

15 points

Sep 19, 2010 4:13 PM in response to S.U.

Yes, that's what I was thinking about for quite a while, reinstalling the OS.
It is going to be a pain in the @#s, but I think eventually it will give me a huge peace of mind. (Although there were almost no problems since I started this thread, but what happened is always somewhere there, in the background)...

One thing that is going to make it easier is that I have all those backups, so, although I am not going to use them, assuming that something is corrupted, but install everything from the beginning, at least I will have a reference point.

Thanks a lot, to you, U.S. and to every one else who participated and helped me here.
I think I will close the thread and if after the reinstalling I will have any questions/problems etc', I will re-post.
Thanks a lot. Saul

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