You can make a difference in the Apple Support Community!

When you sign up with your Apple Account, you can provide valuable feedback to other community members by upvoting helpful replies and User Tips.

Looks like no one’s replied in a while. To start the conversation again, simply ask a new question.

Confused by compatibility of USB C cables with 2023 M2 Mac Mini T4 ports - please help

I have a 2023 M2 Mac Mini with two T4 ports and I need to power and deliver data to/from a small powered MIDI hub (for music) using a USB C cable. I am really confused about whether I can use a USB C cable in the M2 Mac Mini Thunderbolt 4 ports without inflicting damage on either device. Can I?


I have researched it but I don't see a statement that says 'you can use a USB C cable in your T4 port' . Someone will no doubt show me an article now which states just that but if so then great - my question will be answered!


I found the following Apple articles on the 2023 M2 Mac Mini specs(one mentions USB C and the other does not). So which one do I believe? Please see below:





Posted on Jan 7, 2024 4:54 AM

Reply
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Posted on Jan 7, 2024 6:46 AM

The Thunderbolt4 ports are compatible with USB 3.1 Gen 2 & USB4. It's expressed that way in the specs to illustrate the high speed of those USB generations. In reality, as long as you have a USB-C cable you can use ANY USB device all the way back to USB-1. (Although I wouldn't suggest doing that as it would be glacially slow.) And if you have USB-A cables you can get an inexpensive USB-A to USB-C plug adapter. It's all just USB.


Regarding power to your MIDI hub, if it's a powered hub as you indicated (meaning it has its own power supply) then you do not need to worry about power over USB.


Any good quality USB-C cable will work. Just make sure it's qualified for at least USB 3.

16 replies
Sort By: 
Question marked as Top-ranking reply

Jan 7, 2024 6:46 AM in response to Cobalt19

The Thunderbolt4 ports are compatible with USB 3.1 Gen 2 & USB4. It's expressed that way in the specs to illustrate the high speed of those USB generations. In reality, as long as you have a USB-C cable you can use ANY USB device all the way back to USB-1. (Although I wouldn't suggest doing that as it would be glacially slow.) And if you have USB-A cables you can get an inexpensive USB-A to USB-C plug adapter. It's all just USB.


Regarding power to your MIDI hub, if it's a powered hub as you indicated (meaning it has its own power supply) then you do not need to worry about power over USB.


Any good quality USB-C cable will work. Just make sure it's qualified for at least USB 3.

Reply

Jan 7, 2024 1:11 PM in response to Cobalt19

You are correct, USB can be very confusing because "USB" can refer to the protocol, the cable and/or the connector. USB-C is especially confusing because it's a type of connector that can be used for either USB or Thunderbolt.

  • USB 1, 2, 3, 4 refers to the USB protocol. All flavors of the USB protocol are backward compatible.
  • USB A, B, C refers to the type of connector


Your MIDI controller has a USB-C port (type of connector).

  • Ideally you should use a USB-C to USB-C cable. Your Mac Mini has USB-C ports.
  • Second choice IMHO would be to use the supplied USB-C to USB-A cable. Your Mac Mini also has USB-A ports.
  • Both cables will work fine.


Cables with USB-C connectors on both ends are rated for USB 3 or higher.

Cables with a USB-C connector on one end and a USB-A connector on the other end could be rated for either USB 2 or USB 3:

  • If the interior of the USB-A connector is not blue, it's USB 2 or USB 1.1
  • If the interior of the USB-A connector is blue, it's USB 3


The cables carry whatever power the device draws. Your Mac Mini can deliver up to 900mw power to connected USB devices, and since your MIDI controller is spec'd at only 150mw power, there is no problem there.

Reply

Jan 9, 2024 9:59 AM in response to Cobalt19

Cobalt19 wrote:

I can see you have repeated your answer there Martin. Perhaps the question I should have asked was: is the amount of volts power delivered by any host device (in this case the M2 Mac Mini T4 port) to any receiving connected device (in this case the MIDI device) always constant, no matter what USB protocol or cable is being used?

It's always 5v, period. What vaires is the mA delivered, which depends on what the USB devices draw. It is only limited by what the macMini can deliver; under USB3 that is 900mA.


And, sorry that I miswrote "mw" instead of "mA" in my earlier post.

Reply

Jan 10, 2024 11:10 PM in response to Cobalt19

Cobalt19 wrote:

Taking the power rating of the MIDI device as written as 150mw, then am I right in saying the device draws 30mA current from the Mac Mini?


Yes. It draws 5 volt power, and (150 milliwatts / 5 volts) = 30 milliamps.


The MIDI device manufacturer replied to my question confirming the device can be powered by USB 3 to USB 3 cable (not that I needed to know this given you all told me already) but moreover, that it definitely uses USB 2 protocol, which means I can use the Mac Mini USB A port if I can free one up or buy yet another peripheral - an USB port replicator/hub.


The USB-A ports on the M2 and M2 Pro Mac minis support speeds of "up to 5 Gb/s". Those are USB 3.0 speeds, and the ports would be suitable for attaching either USB 2.0 or USB 3.0 peripherals.


On the latter note I am similarly unsure if I would need a powered USB replicator/ hub or an unpowered one - but thats a whole new question for the forum which I will come back to.


I don't think you would for plugging in a wired keyboard or mouse, or devices with their own power supplies. But with bus-powered external drives, some of those are so power hungry that if you plug in just one drive by itself, it takes pretty much the entire USB 3.0 power budget.


Rule of thumb – if you're planning on plugging in multiple devices that include drives (HDDs, SSDs, thumb drives) and/or card readers, you probably better plan on a powered hub.

Reply

Jan 8, 2024 4:41 PM in response to Cobalt19

Cobalt19 wrote:

Hi. Thank you both for your replies.

The midi device is the CME U6 Midi Pro. https://www.cme-pro.com/u6-midi-pro-usb-midi-interface-routing-filter/
it requires powering through the USB connection, is what I meant.


The technical specifications for that device say

  • Power Supply: USB-C socket. Powered via standard 5V USB bus or charger
  • Power Consumption: 150 mW


It sounds as though this device relies on USB 2.0 or 3.0 power. Those versions of USB allow provision of up to 2500 mW and 4500 mW of 5V power, respectively. It doesn't sound like powering this device will be a problem.

Reply

Jan 8, 2024 4:49 PM in response to Servant of Cats

Servant of Cats wrote:

The technical specifications for that device say
• Power Supply: USB-C socket. Powered via standard 5V USB bus or charger
• Power Consumption: 150 mW


Let's suppose that there is a typo in the technical specifications for that device – and that it actually consumes 150 mA of power @ 5 V. That is, to say, 750 mW. (Watts = Amps * Volts)


That's still within the

  • 500 mA @ 5 V (2500 mW) limit for USB 2.0, or the
  • 900 mA @ 5 V (4500 mW) limit for USB 3.0
Reply

Jan 7, 2024 7:37 AM in response to Cobalt19

Hi. Thank you both for your replies.


The midi device is the CME U6 Midi Pro. https://www.cme-pro.com/u6-midi-pro-usb-midi-interface-routing-filter/

it requires powering through the USB connection, is what I meant.


Will any USB C cable deliver the power to the device as well as handle the data transfers?



Reply

Jan 7, 2024 7:56 AM in response to Cobalt19

...I should add, the CME U6MIDI Pro came with a USB A to USB C cable but I don't want to use the USB A port on the M2 Mac Mini because both my USB A ports are already used, hence I want to use one of the T4 ports for powering/data for the CME U6MIDI Pro.

Reply

Jan 7, 2024 11:26 AM in response to MartinR

Thanks Martin - much appreciated.


The interior of the USB A end of the USB C to USB A cable supplied with the MIDI device is in fact WHITE, so my final question is: can I still use a certified USB C cable to deliver power to this MIDI device? (Does white mean 'USB 2' protocol?)


In other words, is the amount of power delivered to the device from my M2 Mac Mini T4 port going to be the same no matter if I use a USB C to USB A (USB 2 plug), a USB C to USB A (USB 3 plug), or a USB C to USB C plug?


... all these different cable & plug types and different USB data protocols seems very complicated to me!

Reply

Jan 8, 2024 2:30 AM in response to MartinR

I can see you have repeated your answer there Martin. Perhaps the question I should have asked was: is the amount of volts power delivered by any host device (in this case the M2 Mac Mini T4 port) to any receiving connected device (in this case the MIDI device) always constant, no matter what USB protocol or cable is being used?

Reply

Jan 8, 2024 6:20 PM in response to Cobalt19

Cobalt19 wrote:

The interior of the USB A end of the USB C to USB A cable supplied with the MIDI device is in fact WHITE,

Unfortunately Apple's own USB adapters do not color code the center part unlike the majority of other vendors out there. However, Apple's own USB-C to USB-A adapters will support at least USB3 at 5Gb/s.


The whole USB-C and Thunderbolt3/4 & USB3/4 standard is a mess with the vendors not helping people to clearly understand what the various devices truly support in terms of actual data transfer protocols or speed. Just remember, the "USB-C" designation is only the name of the connector type and does not tell you any other information about the port or cable unless the manufacturer may print a data transfer protocol on the USB-C connector, or next to the USB-C port on the computer. Unfortunately Apple does not print any such information on their products except for the USB-C Thunderbolt 3/4 Cable which will have a Lightning bolt symbol printed on the USB-C connector to indicate the cable supports the Thunderbolt protocol which should imply it also supports the USB protocol as well when connected to a USB device.


Edit: Many times the manufacturers and vendors selling products will mislead people into believe a specific device is much faster than it really is because they will quote the theoretical maximum speed of the USB or Thunderbolt standard to make the product look attractive, so you must really look very closely at the actual speeds listed....sometimes they may only be found within the product data sheet hidden on the manufacturer's website. If you cannot locate the actual speed rating, then assume the worst. Make sure you have found the real data transfer speeds and not the theoretical maximum of the protocol. Even I have trouble figuring out this information.

Reply

Jan 9, 2024 11:27 AM in response to MartinR

MartinR wrote:

Cobalt19 wrote:

Perhaps the question I should have asked was: is the amount of volts power delivered by any host device (in this case the M2 Mac Mini T4 port) to any receiving connected device (in this case the MIDI device) always constant, no matter what USB protocol or cable is being used?

It's always 5v, period.


Except when you're talking about USB-C Power Delivery: https://www.usb.org/usb-charger-pd


That's something above and beyond USB 2.0 and USB 3.0 power, and I don't think the OP's MIDI interface uses it. (I'm not even sure whether the M2 Mac mini would offer any power in this way.)

Reply

Jan 10, 2024 8:48 PM in response to Cobalt19

Thank you everybody for taking the time to explain how the different USB cables, connectors and protocols work, along with the analysis of the compatibility of the M2 Mac Mini T4 ports with the MIDI device I have acquired.


Now you have spelt it all out, I can understand it and see how it all relates to one another, which was not true when I asked my original question here.


Taking the power rating of the MIDI device as written as 150mw, then am I right in saying the device draws 30mA current from the Mac Mini?


The MIDI device manufacturer replied to my question confirming the device can be powered by USB 3 to USB 3 cable (not that I needed to know this given you all told me already) but moreover, that it definitely uses USB 2 protocol, which means I can use the Mac Mini USB A port if I can free one up or buy yet another peripheral - an USB port replicator/hub. On the latter note I am similarly unsure if I would need a powered USB replicator/ hub or an unpowered one - but thats a whole new question for the forum which I will come back to.


Thank you all once again for your kind help.


Reply

Confused by compatibility of USB C cables with 2023 M2 Mac Mini T4 ports - please help

Welcome to Apple Support Community
A forum where Apple customers help each other with their products. Get started with your Apple Account.