Help removing remnants of an installed app

RemyRogers wrote:

I installed an app called App Cleaner from reading on this forum but it seems that I should have used this app first instead of just drag and drop to the trash. I will definitely use this app in the future

Never, ever use any kind of "app zapper" or "clean up" app to uninstall software on a Mac. Any recommendation you have read on this forum is wrong - provably wrong. I don't care who said it.

A few years ago, Apple introduced a new type of software artifact called a "System Extension". (Not to be confused with what Apple calls "System Extensions" that are actually an older technology more properly called "Kernel extensions". On the developer site, Apple does differentiate between the two, but not on any consumer-facing support sites.)

These new system extensions are supposed to reduce the prevalence of kernel panics, because they aren't true kernel extensions. However, upon installation, these extensions are stored into a protected system area. There are only three ways to uninstall them:

1) You can drag the containing app to the trash. You'll get a dialog confirming that you will be uninstalling a system extension. Unfortunately, many such apps are installed in various hidden directories and therefore hard to find.

2) The app itself can uninstall it using a special Apple API. Unfortunately, many apps don't include an uninstaller. Often, those that do include an uninstaller don't properly uninstall their system extensions. It's either hit or miss. You either get lucky or you don't.

3) There is a 3rd method where you can disable system security and use the command line to remove the extension. This is a dangerous operation and I can't provide any details here in the forum. If a moderator sees it, it will get deleted.

If you don't use one of these 3 methods, then the system extension will stay installed, and running, completely out of control, for all eternity. It will be protected by Apple's own security. You won't be able to control it or delete it using any method, except for #3. Once you screw up the uninstall, it's there forever.

(Technically there is always method #4, erase your hard drive and reinstall the operating system. You have to make sure that when you restore, you restore only your user accounts and user files. Don't restore any apps, software, system settings, or "other files". Hopefully your restore doesn't corrupt your files like it did mine recently.)

So obviously, the only guaranteed way to remove a system extension is by dragging the containing app to the trash. Not all software includes system extensions. Many apps include many different components that have to be removed individually. It's a real catch-22. You're ****** if you do and ****** if you don't.

But one thing is certain and cannot be disputed. App zappers and cleanup apps will fail to remove a system extension in all cases. You will then have to search the internet for instructions for #3 or take your chances with #4.

but was of the understanding that you just drag and drop the app from the applications folder to the trash to uninstall so I did. I then emptied the trash. I attempted to reinstall by the same means as the first time but the install froze.

If you "installed" it using an installer, you must use the uninstaller provided by the developer. The only apps you can drag to the trash are ones that you download from the App Store and ones that come fully contained app you drag into the Applications folder. You should never use any "app cleaner."

There are messages on their forum suggesting their uninstaller (I couldn't find it) doesn't completely uninstall the program. Since it is a Package installer, you can use Suspicious Package to see exactly what it installs where and remove those things manually.

There is a couple-page discussion about Sonoma on their macOS forum: macOS Sonoma

I then dragged that little box icon to my applications folder in the other finder window. It seemed to work okay the first time as the app at least installed and I was able to interact with it. Is this not the proper protocol?

No. The proper way to install an app using a Package installer is to double-click the package.

You just copied the package into your Applications folder and apparently ran it from there. Works the same in the end.

How would I know if there is an uninstaller for this app that will remove the rest of the bits?

The developer of the app should have it clearly and easily available on their website. Really good developers will include it in the disk image that contained the installer package. As I noted, I searched and didn't find it. The user forums there indicated there was an uninstaller, but I could not find it. You may have to contact their support and ask for it.

RemyRogers wrote:

You just copied the package into your Applications folder and apparently ran it from there. Works the same in the end.

Can't believe I needed help realizing this.

Thanks again Barney I will contact their support now.

Now that I think about it, what did you drag to the trash? Was it just the installer package?

The app apparently creates a folder inside of Applications with all of the parts in that folder. You may not have removed the app at all.

All of the leftover files found when searching in Finder are located in Library>Frameworks and Users>Shared. I don't see any related files in the Applications folder.

Those are the two primary places it installs files according to Suspicious Package. It also installs a folder of utility apps in Applications.

RemyRogers wrote:

These are the files that I was referring to that I find by searching This Mac

You cannot find these components by searching for them. They can be stored in various hidden directories that are not included in a default search.

1. Unless you have a real need, you should only install software from the Mac App Store. That's the easiest.
2. Next are apps that you download. You'll download a ZIP file and, by default, that will be automatically expanded to an app. You can then drag that app to the Applications folder. There's nothing wrong with such apps. For one reason or another, they don't qualify for the Mac App Store or the developer doesn't want to use the Mac App Store. When you run them, you should get a dialog box that says Apple checked it for malware and nothing was found. If you don't get that dialog box, delete the app. Do NOT attempt to install it.
3. Next is older software that is more than just an app. This software requires an installer package. You'll download a ZIP file and, by default, that will be automatically expanded to an installer package. You double-click the package and it installs some software that modifies your operating system. This will usually require your administrator password to install. Afterwards, you can expect many trips back here to the Apple Support Community trying to figure out what is wrong with your Mac.
4. Next are apps written by people still livin' large in 1998. These are DMG files that you download. The app will be inside the DMG. There will be an "Applications" folder inside the DMG window that points to your Applications folder. There will probably also be some image telling you to drag the app into the Applications folder.
5. Harder still are software (not apps) that are written by people still livin' large in 1998. These are DMG files that you download that include an installer package. You double-click on the installer package to install some modification to the operating system that was last tested in 1998. Good luck. You are here. 😄

Unless you have a strong, burning desire and need, you should only ever do 1, 2, or 4. When you want to uninstall those apps, you can just drag them to the trash and be done with it. All of the others (and sometimes 2 and 4) will scatter files throughout your system, in various hidden folders. Good luck ever getting rid of them.