Using Gill Sans font in a logo

I have used Gill Sans Regular for some text in a logo. The font comes pre-installed on the Mac OS. I will outline the font and not re-distribute the actual font file. I was wondering if this is okay? I am not finding any clear information about this.

MacBook Pro 16″, macOS 14.2

Posted on Feb 9, 2024 8:33 AM

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Posted on Feb 9, 2024 9:18 AM

I did talk to Monotype. This is what they had to say: Please contact Apple support to seek confirmation if their license covers it. If not, you may place an order for desktop license from our sister website Myfonts.com


Thank you for sharing the link to the Apple legal department form. Hopefully they give me a clear answer.


I will not be embedding the font technically. I would convert it to a vector outline.



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Feb 9, 2024 9:18 AM in response to Kurt Lang

I did talk to Monotype. This is what they had to say: Please contact Apple support to seek confirmation if their license covers it. If not, you may place an order for desktop license from our sister website Myfonts.com


Thank you for sharing the link to the Apple legal department form. Hopefully they give me a clear answer.


I will not be embedding the font technically. I would convert it to a vector outline.



Feb 9, 2024 9:38 AM in response to ludo_barbot

Odd that Agfa would send you back to Apple for their own font. But here's the Sonoma license text for fonts:


E. Fonts. Subject to the terms and conditions of this License, you may use the fonts included with the Apple Software to display and print content while running the Apple Software; however, you may only embed fonts in content if that is permitted by the embedding restrictions accompanying the font in question. These embedding restrictions can be found in the Font Book/Preview/Show Font Info panel.


That's pretty straightforward. You can use the fonts however you like as long as you only embed a subset of the fonts when they're being included in a document released outside of the direct use on your Mac. And since Gill Sans allows subset embedding, you're okay to use it.


If effect, you're doing the same thing as subsetting but turning the font into outlines. The only glyphs included are those in the converted text.


But I'd still wait for Apple's response. Font licensing is a can of worms.

Feb 9, 2024 8:53 AM in response to ludo_barbot

It would be best to ask Apple Legal.


Legal - Contact - Rights and Permissions - Apple


Though in reality, the font belongs to Agfa Monotype and the real answer would come from them:


http://www.agfamonotype.com


It has these restrictions. One says:


⚠︎ Preview and print — documents embedding this font must be read-only


Digging deeper with FontLab, the legal area says this:



It looks like a conflicting statement, but what the means is you cannot embed the entire font. Only a subset.


Edit: Forgot to mention. The license area of the font's internal data is blank. That would lead me to believe you can use it for anything. A book, flyer, brochure, etc. Only that whatever you use it for the entire font is not included. But again, I would contact Agfa Monotype and ask.

Feb 9, 2024 12:52 PM in response to ludo_barbot

I haven't looked at Adobe's license for fonts since they all went online. But the now defunct Font Folio sets on CD/DVD allowed the owner of the registration full use of all fonts. You're covered on your end. For a project sent to, oh say, a commercial print shop, if they didn't already have that font, then the onus would be on them to purchase their own legal copy so they could produce whatever it is you have them printing.


When I was in various full service printer and prepress shops (then as an independent for many years), they would have thousands of dollars worth of fonts on the server from various companies so there were almost no instances where when we got a project in, we didn't already have our own set of the same legally owned fonts. It's why I have well over 25,000 fonts I virtually never use for myself.

Feb 9, 2024 8:54 AM in response to ludo_barbot

ludo_barbot wrote:

I have used Gill Sans Regular for some text in a logo. The font comes pre-installed on the Mac OS. I will outline the font and not re-distribute the actual font file. I was wondering if this is okay? I am not finding any clear information about this.


And how would this be an issue exactly..?


Personal use ?


ref: Fonts included with macOS Sonoma

Fonts included with macOS Sonoma - Apple Support


Feb 9, 2024 9:45 AM in response to Kurt Lang

Thank you so much Kurt Lang!


Hopefully Apple will get back to me.


Font licensing is a nightmare when things are not 100% clear.

I used a font from Adobe fonts recently on a project. I have a full license on all of the Adobe applications.

Long story short I ended up having to pay the font foundry for using a font from Adobe when I had the license... Since then I am very weary when it comes to fonts.

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Using Gill Sans font in a logo

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