Help with using a MacBook M3 Pro as a laptop and desktop

This isn't a particular issue, I was reaching out for feedback on how this might work (or not!). Currently I have a 2019 iMac 5K and a 2020 MacBook Pro which I pretty much use independently of each other simply because that's how it has worked out up to now.


What I want to do is replace both these machines with a MacBook M3 Pro and the following describes the scenario I'm envisaging.


I have a computer desk with an Apple Studio Display and a LG Ultrafine 4K display plugged in to a TB4 dock which also has two external SSDs, one containing media and data files and the other acting as a Time Machine device. I have a separate workbench with a number of electronic instruments that are plugged into a TB dock. I also work at an external site once a week to which I take the laptop.


What I'd like to do is:

  • On my computer desk, plug the TB4 dock into the laptop in clamshell mode. Power is provided via the dock and both displays and the disks are recognised by the laptop when I plug it in.
  • I might then just unplug the laptop and take it to my workbench with the lid open (not clamshell) and the dock plugged in so I can control the instruments.
  • Then I might unplug, close the lid and take it to the computer desk and plug in the dock so it is back operating in clamshell mode.
  • And once a week, just grab the laptop off the computer desk, unplugging it from the dock and taking it offsite. When I return, plug it back in on the computer desk.


What I'm not sure about is how aggravating this scenario might be in terms of operation. For example, would I need to be putting the MacBook to sleep before unplugging; what about disconnecting external drives before unplugging; when I go to bed and put the MacBook to sleep, will it also power down the external displays or would I be turning them off manually and back on again in the morning?


I'm just not sure on how this would actually work in practice - anyone do something similar or have any thoughts? Hopefully I've described this clearly!


It would be a lot more convenient to me in terms of setup and usage to have just the one machine.


Thanks


Posted on Feb 24, 2024 6:52 AM

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15 replies

Feb 24, 2024 4:06 PM in response to andrewfrommilton keynes

andrewfrommilton keynes wrote:

I'm pretty convinced in my mind that external drives will need to be ejected


Definitely. APFS and the journaled versions of HFS+ might be more robust in the face of power failure than, say, FAT32 or exFAT, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea to "cut the cable" when there still may be cached, yet-to-be written, data.

Feb 24, 2024 6:57 AM in response to andrewfrommilton keynes

Clamshell mode and sleep for that matter has difficulty transmitting enough power to peripherals that don't have their own source of power from the hub/docking station itself. If you have a hub or docking station with its own source of power you don't have to worry about it. Those that use the computer as their source of power these extra logistics have to be thought about. Energy Saver does have a "do not put hard drives to sleep" option that helps, but it isn't perfect. There are just some devices that don't understand energy saver at all, and dismounting drives before going to clamshell or energy saver is essential.



Feb 24, 2024 12:22 PM in response to andrewfrommilton keynes

I took a look at the ads for the Sonnet dock, and I don't think it contains any outright lies. What is not stated is that when you attach peripherals that demand more bits/sec than the Thunderbolt Bus can produce, something has to give, and slowdowns or display blanking might be the result.


The Apple Studio Display 8-bit color and full resolution would use HBR3 and consume a nominal 25.92 G bits/sec at 60 Hz. Because of that, running it through a Dock consumes most of the bandwidth of the Dock. That seems like a Bad Idea™.


A 4K display would use HBR2 at "only" 17.28 G bits/sec, and would take up only about half the Bus bandwidth, so could fit with other peripherals, including drives, on the same ThunderBolt Bus.


The Thunderbolt ports are nominal 40 G Bits/sec, but typically supported by a real 32 G bits/sec worth of data.


You can certainly use a Dock with Two thunderbolt ports, but you are paying dearly for the convenience of not plugging in one more cable for the Apple Studio Display.

Feb 24, 2024 4:04 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

Grant Bennet-Alder wrote:

The Apple studio display alone consumes essentially all the bandwidth in a Thunderbolt cable, so there is not enough for all those other displays and drives at the same time.


That's what I would have thought – but Other World Computing, SonnetTech, and CalDigit are all now selling some Thunderbolt docks that can drive two 5K Studio Displays when attached to an appropriate Mac.


The docks and hubs in question seem to be the ones which have the ability to split a single Thunderbolt chain into several Thunderbolt chains. I think that feature is probably related to the USB4 or Thunderbolt 4 work somehow – which makes me wonder if the ability to hang dual 5K displays off a single TB dock is, too.

Feb 25, 2024 7:26 AM in response to andrewfrommilton keynes

The most common issue users raise with clamshell mode is that if the power adapter is not connected, the default operation for closing the lid is your MacBook Pro goes to sleep. Issues abound around waking and sleeping and connecting and disconnecting devices while the lid is closed.


There used to be separate article on clamshell mode. Apple removed it and put a little of that information into the Main "using External displays" article. That tells me they no longer have any love for that feature, and it may not be well supported.


Not supported means if you can NOT get it working, Apple will not help you. if you DO get it working, "Merry Christmas!", you get an unexpected present.


-------

In the recent Apple-silicon M-series MacBook Pro, you paid dearly for that beautiful display. [In my opinion], there is no compelling reason to CLOSE it. The built-in can be used as part of an extended desktop when positioned up down left right of your external display(s)


...

Feb 24, 2024 11:09 AM in response to a brody

In regards to the displays, the Sonnet Echo 20 TB4 Superdock says it can support a ASD on one of the TB4 ports and a 4k 60Hz display on the other TB4 port but I'd be interested in understanding this further. There's also a dock that has 2xTB4 chips albeit a bit expensive with mixed reviews on reliability (IVANKY something-or-other)


That's essentially what I would have. I could put a 2TB SSD into it's internal SSD slot for Time Machine (uses circa 700Mb/s bandwidth) and have an external data SSD on one of the USB C ports (10 Gbps) on the TB4 dock or plugged in to the ASD or LG display, or alternatively plugged direct to the MacBook although that would then be two plugs to take off! Not a big deal really.


External keyboard, mouse and trackpad connected over bluetooth.


That would just leave some ports for syncing/charging iPhone and iPad - not a great power delivery for these but it's not a big deal for me as I normally charge the phone overnight next to my bed and the iPad just over time during the day.


(edited with a bit more info)

Feb 24, 2024 7:11 AM in response to a brody

The TB4 dock will provide power to external drives and the MacBook via its TB cable so I don't think power will be a problem - I can imagine having to plug the displays into their own power source. Really, power isn't what I'm scratching my head over, it's really the useability/aggravation of using the MacBook across the above scenarios. I'd say the usage profile would be: 70% computer desk, 20% workbench and 10% off site. Although once I start having to work at my workbench, it's likely to switch around to something like 80% workbench, 10% computer desk and 10% off site. Generally, I mostly work at the computer desk but once I start having to sit at the workbench, then a lot of work will go on there.

Feb 24, 2024 10:53 AM in response to andrewfrommilton keynes

<<. I have a computer desk with an Apple Studio Display and a LG Ultrafine 4K display plugged in to a TB4 dock which also has two external SSDs, ... >>


That is too much "stuff" for the bandwidth available from ONE ThunderBolt cable.


The Apple studio display alone consumes essentially all the bandwidth in a Thunderbolt cable, so there is not enough for all those other displays and drives at the same time.


We can discuss exactly how much bandwidth each device uses if you wish.

Feb 24, 2024 10:58 AM in response to a brody

I wouldn't use it for gaming and for the software purposes I would use it for - heaviest things being something like Fusion 360, LabVIEW and some low key development and I know it will be fine for what I do.


My queries are not about the MacBook itself which I know would be fine but really about day-to-day usage: moving it between computer desk, workbench and off-site and how much aggravation that would likely to be. I'm not sure.


In my head to move from computer desk to workbench what I'd like to do is:

  • Pull the TB dock lead out
  • Move to workbench and open MacBook lid
  • Plug in the TB dock on the workbench
  • Crack on with work.


What I suspect is to move from computer desk to workbench I would need to do the following:

  • Put MacBook to sleep
  • Wait 1 minute for it to flush any cache to disk and properly go to sleep. Would it flush caches??
  • pull the plug to the TB dock. This I suspect would raise the "incorrectly ejected disks" error - and if it was doing a TM backup??
  • Move to workbench and open MacBook lid
  • Plug in TB dock
  • Crack on with work


Pretty much the same to take it off site and the same but in reverse to move back to computer desk. Would it be as simple as this? At night if I put the MacBook to sleep would it also "turn off" the displays? And so on....Where are my pain points likely to be?


With the iMac and MacBook setup I have now, none of those things apply but my aggravation, if you like, is that the two machines aren't really in sync and obviously it's expensive to upgrade the two machines rather than just switch everything to one MacBook. I also have to buy two software licences for some pieces of software I use (e.g. Parallels and the guest Windows OS.)

Feb 24, 2024 12:50 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

That is useful info, thanks. So it looks like I'd have to assume that at least two things would be plugged in to the MacBook. Whether or not I then require a dock could be moot: if I plug both displays into the MacBook, the other peripherals could hang off the LG display as it has 2 TB and 3 USBc ports; the ASD has 3 additional USBc ports as well I believe (can't remember and it isn't really necessary to look it up right now.)


Notwithstanding, I'm still not clear exactly what is likely to happen with plugging in/unplugging stuff. I'm pretty convinced in my mind that external drives will need to be ejected - I guess I could create an Automator routine to eject/mount them before pulling the plugs. IIRC there's a bit of software that would eject/mount external drives when I put the MacBook to sleep. That doesn't sound too onerous as long as I remember!


Are there any other particular issues with using clamshell mode, say with powering down stuff when I put the MacBook to sleep when I'm done for the day? Doing some research, it would appear that most problems seem to relate to people not really setting it up properly.

Feb 25, 2024 5:54 AM in response to andrewfrommilton keynes

Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far. I definitely don't want to be running a 5K display (any display) at 30Hz so that's good information. It would seem that I'd need to remember to eject drives before pulling two plugs but apart from that there are no specific issues with running it in clamshell mode. I expect I'd get into the swing of it after a short period of time.


If I good find better reviews, i.e. less biased and from people who have used it in anger for a period of time, on the IVANKY dock that may be a reasonable option although I do like the SSD slot in the Sonnet. Anyway this thread was more about any vagaries of using clamshell mode than the kit itself.




Feb 25, 2024 8:29 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

It's an option - the biggest issue I have is desk space: the screens would have to be in a row as there isn't the height available due to it all being fitted furniture with shelves above. Using the MacBook in clamshell mode also gives me working desk space and I'm used to having two bigger screens for the last 25+ years. Having said that, I'm also thinking about using just a ASD with the MacBook screen and selling the LG screen. Clearly I have options I can try out before deciding.



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Help with using a MacBook M3 Pro as a laptop and desktop

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