Command Tab + dragging file LAG

Luke23_00 wrote:

It seems like the issue doesn't occur in safe boot.

What may be the problem here?

How can I find out?

Well, that almost certainly means it is being caused by something installed. I provided two examples earlier, mos and CleanMyMac. CleanMyMac returns more than 10,000 hits when you paste this into a browser:

site:discussions.apple.com cleanmymac

CleanMyMac is one of the most problematic programs according to users' reports in Apple Discussions. The program may be on the surface innocuous, but it tends to delete files ("cleaning") and when they are files needed by the MacOS, that often disrupts normal system operation. There is no reason to install such cleaning apps.

mos seems to change the way the system interacts with mouse movements, and that's another good candidate. It has crashed multiple times according to Etrecheck.

You also have Bitdefender, an anti-virus that can absolutely slow down your Mac and cause lags. It shows "high cpu use" in your Etrecheck report.

By the way, Malwarebytes should be ok but I would turn off the real-time protection option (for now).

You can look through your Etrecheck report for all third party installed items that change the user interface. (Normal user applications like MS-Word or Adobe Acrobat would not be suspects.) To test, one needs to UNINSTALL them one by one, completely. Usually a company-provided uninstaller is required, but even those sometimes don't do it completely and sweep up is required.

A more drastic approach is to make several verified, reliable backups. Then follow Apple's instructions for preparing a Mac for sale/transfer, which involves completely erasing the Mac. Then run Setup Assistant or Migration Assistant to bring over only files and user accounts, not settings and not software nor applications. Then verify proper functioning. Then install things one by one to make sure you don't reintroduce the problem.

I would avoid the more drastic approach unless absolutely necessary. It is time consuming and one never wants to completely erase one's Mac if it can be avoided. I would try to uninstall things first to see if the problem goes away.

Clearly something is not right, Etrecheck shows numerous apps are crashing. Megasync, Apphousekitchen, ProjectLlama.cleanup, mos, Bitdefender and others are all possible suspects in causing your issues. Be especially concerned about ones that Etrecheck shows are crashing or using "high cpu." Those will slow your Mac down.

Luke23_00 wrote:

Apparently, the problem is not just the cmd tab and dragging files around, but the whole system becomes slightly slower.

I'm not talking about the speed of the system

Apps and files open as fast as usual.

Feel like the system carries some weight and it does not feel as light and responsive.

I'm talking about lag is also encountered in spotlight dragging files, promotion doesn't seem as smooth, and the whole system animations don't seem as fast

Almost like something is holding it back from full potential

Now, the issue goes away with a restart or shut down, but comes back later. It feels like the system acumulates some cache somewhere or starts to clog itself up without cleaning.

The vast majority of people using Sequoia do not report those symptoms. I have not seen posts like yours in the Sequoia section of Apple Discussions.

I would consider that one or more of the following user-installed items COULD be responsible, and several of these are flagged in Etrecheck for high cpu use or crashing:

CleanMyMac

mos

Bitdefender

Megasync

Apphousekitchen

ProjectLlama.cleanup

Real Time Protection portion of Malwarebytes

BitdefenderVirusScanner.app - High CPU Use

Mos - Crash

RTProtectionDaemon.app - High CPU Use

You also seem to be spending a lot of your computer resources on messaging apps, such as Telegram and Discord (Renderer). I don't understand those messaging apps very well but it seems that Discord runs continuously in the background scanning for messages and the way it is implemented (somehow connected to web browsers) it can draw in considerable computer resources, possibly causing a "drag" on performance. Some of these apps are making your top processes lists.

I (and others who responded) have made suggestions, you are free to try them or to ignore them and live with what you have.

Luke23_00 wrote:

I appreciate your help

I tried everything. Exiting discord, uninstalling CleanMyMac and it's files, bitdefender, Malwarebytes, everything cleaned

MOS restarted, uninstalled, still nothing. The problem seems to resolve if I log out and back in, which I think then results in a user problem.

I would like to belive it should not happen if I create another user, but the problem doesn't occur immediately, so i would have to spend some time there.

As I said, it feels like a system slowdown more than a bug, and it can be encountered most often in finder, which I restarted, yet still nothing.

It may be something that cleanmymac messed up but is it for sure?

The idea is, it's seems like the problem is tied up to my user, so how can I solve it?

Thank you!

P.S The problem has a very exact time in which it appears and it seems to be around 24 hours

Everytime it pops up after the exact same amount of time

It sounds like you are trying the right things.

Keep in mind that exiting or quitting a program is not the same as completely uninstalling it, because many of these programs have pieces that start when your Mac starts up and run quietly in the background, yet still impacting operations, despite quitting the app, even uninstalling it. CleanMyMac and some of the anti-virus tools are very stubborn and some elements are still there, even after "complete removal" (not your fault, software that does that is poorly written and not user friendly).

It might be helpful to see what Etrecheck looks like after you finished uninstalling things. To see what, if anything, "remains."

I fear the ultimate solution might be to revert back to a clean install, which basically wipes everything (erase, format) the Mac and installs a new version of Sequoia, and then requires a Migration from a Time Machine backup to restore user accounts and files (just user accounts and files, no applications, no settings, no misc, nothing else). It is best to have multiple backups when doing this as if anything goes amiss with the backup media you will want to have alternate backups of your things. If you have never done this before, it might be prudent to get assistance with it from an Apple Authorized Service Provider. I have done it myself and consider myself a somewhat minimally skilled user, not an expert. Apple has clear instructions for this

Erase your Mac and reset it to factory settings - Apple Support

This may also be helpful, including the links at the bottom for restoring from a Time Machine backup after an erase and install.

Erase and reinstall macOS - Apple Support

I would not proceed with this grand reinstall until you have ruled out all possibilities. You can download and use Find Any File (I think there is a free version) to try to locate any files anywhere associated with mos or from its manufacturer. I am focused on mos because you said the problem happens with the mouse but not with the trackpad. Also, you seem to have this:

E-Signal - USB Gaming Mouse

Is this device compatible with MacOS Sequoia? Does it require drivers or anything like that?

CleanMyMac

mos

Bitdefender

Megasync

Apphousekitchen

ProjectLlama.cleanup

Real Time Protection portion of Malwarebytes

I would attempt to completely uninstall all of the above (I think you may have already done some of them based on what you said). Keep in mind this is temporary and they can be reinstalled once you are happy with the responsiveness of your system. You have (I think) a fairly recent MacBook Pro, it's a powerful computer so something is really dragging it down if it is so noticeable to you. It might be tricky to do unless you have more than one screen but if possible try to see if some process starts using more of your Mac's resources (cpu, memory, energy, disk read/write) in Activity Monitor while you perform whatever dragging you were doing that shows the symptoms. Or compare the top draw on resources when things are working well, versus when they are not -- for this maybe quit all apps so it is an apples to apples comparison. I am focusing in my mind on Bit Defender and mos and CleanMyMac as they can permeate all simple activities on a Mac.

Again, re-check, when booted into safe mode it behaves normally? That would be the tip off that something remains behind installed (safe mode turns off all non-Apple extensions).

By the way, booting into Recovery and trying the MacOS "reinstall" would not hurt, I doubt it will help but there is always a chance, you can certainly give it a try. Be careful NOT to select any option that involves erasing or formatting the drive, you just want a MacOS reinstall. Be sure to have backups first in case you click the wrong thing.

Trying to think logically about this, since you said the trackpad works fine, since it is movement with the mouse that is not right, and you have this mos package installed that permeates control of mouse motions, I am suspecting that one, but many times my intuition has been wrong about these things. Maybe check carefully that your version installed is compatible with Sequoia ... but I would uninstall it anyway just to try to narrow down the search. (It can always be reinstalled.)

Way back in the 1990s there used to be a tool called Control Catcher that was designed for solving these types of mysteries. It allowed the user to dynamically turn all system extensions and installations on and off one by one (or a few by a few) so you could quickly isolate the source of a conflict or the cause of some unwanted behaviors. It was discontinued when the structure of MacOS changed and it could no longer be used. I wish we had something like that but I don't know of any such tool now.

A rerun of Etrecheck would reveal what is still installed or at least still active. Something is there that is causing this.

Sorry you are dealing with this ... users should be able to install stuff, run games, etc. It's what computers are for. But sometimes older versions of these (or just faulty software) conflict with the latest OS and result in these issues.

It's a little hard to discern the issue in your video, but I think I see it. This does not occur on multiple Macs that I have access to or use, so the next question would be: what "extras" do you have installed on your Mac? The fact that it goes away on reboot seems to indicate it is not hardware related. Anything like "cleaning" utilities, security tools (VPN, anti-virus, network monitors ...) can interfere with normal MacOS operations.

You can download and run the free diagnostic Etrecheck, and post its output here using the Additional text button below. That may provide a clue.

Luke23_00 wrote:

Should I just reinstall macOS without

erasing any of the actual files?

or just use Time Machine instead?

I don't think either of those will work in this case.

The MacOS is in a sealed, read-only snapshot/volume. It cannot be modified except by the Apple certified servers, it is extremely secure. This is why Macs never need an anti-virus tool -- no one except Apple's servers can access that secure volume. Which means no virus can now be installed into the MacOS. Reinstalling the operating system rewrites that sealed volume but absent some hardware glitch/defect or cosmic ray that caused a bit flip within that sealed volume part of the hardware, reinstalling the MacOS won't change this.

Signed system volume security - Apple Support

While the user cannot access the operating system itself directly anymore, the user can install MALWARE. This can impact what normally is smooth user operation of the computer, GUI, etc. and cause all kinds of havoc. The vast majority of Apple Discussion posts involve something amiss that is traced to something user installed.

I am not saying you installed malware, but some "tools" (I mentioned at least 3 or 4 possibilities in earlier responses) or user installed software can have similar detrimental effects, especially if such tools are not fully compatible with the latest/current version of MacOS. CleanMyMac is considered malware by some due to the difficulty in removing it entirely and because it has been linked to many user problems. Any anti-virus (Bit Defender) is also a candidate, and mos is very suspicious given that you have issues related to mouse movements. But your Etrecheck report shows many apps crashing and some causing high cpu use.

Restoring from Time Machine just restores your user files (and user-installed software and other user-installed items); it doesn't touch the MacOS. The operating system is no longer backed up by Time Machine; Apple makes you reinstall it using their crypto-secure servers only.

Does the problem still exist when you create a new user and test? If it is not present, you could create a new user and try to copy files from your original user directories, but the Mac is designed to make this very difficult for security reasons. You would be better off erasing the Mac to restore to its brand new condition with a new MacOS and on first boot select your Time Machine backup to migrate user files only, no apps, no settings. You might ask why do I have to erase if the MacOS is in a separate sealed volume? The answer is that there are system folders on your Mac that don't belong to any users and those system folders have content that interacts with the MacOS in crucial ways. The problem is that some user-installed software modifies (or deletes -- e.g. CleanMyMac) some of those files in order to change your Mac's behavior and this can result in unintended changes.

The frequent app crashing and high cpu use are indicative of user-installed software that is causing unintended consequences. I can't prove it, I don't have access to your Mac, I am just suggesting what seems to be most likely based on what you have reported and on the Etrecheck report..

There could also be broken hardware but I ruled that out because when you booted into safe mode (which disables all user installed extensions and software) the problem went away.

Luke23_00 wrote:

So, to first answer your question, the only thing that I think will interfere with the os would be mos, and Malwarebytes (the last one I unninstalled)

Mos is the mouse app that let's me invert the scrolling wheel

Now, the ethrecheck report

Below is the full report:

https://docs.google.com/document/d/1tO5VdWFgTDZGMrtFaIfvZT4TNRxozJNPzTxLEM5O2YI/edit?usp=sharing

You have installed something (mos) that changes the way the mouse works ... that could be related to your lags. I would completely uninstall it to see what the change is (you can reinstall later after this test).

Also, you have CleanMyMac, which is a red flag for causing all kinds of odd symptoms under MacOS. Unfortunately, it can be very hard to completely remove, we have many reports of people trying to remove it and having trouble doing so. There are literally hundreds (if not thousands) of postings in Discussions about the problems traced to CleanMyMac.

I think Leroy's suggestions to boot into safe mode, and to try a new user, are great suggestions. But I would start by removing CleanMyMac and mos. Not just deleting them; they need to be completely uninstalled with an uninstaller from the provider.

Doing what you are doing instead of drag and drop is also mystifying to me as well.

"what I do here is average windows user stuff"

-- yes but you aren't on a windows machine, it is a Mac.

To trouble shoot further you can:

 —A SafeBoot Start up your Mac in safe mode - Apple Support will sort many anomalies

Does a quick disk repair before it fully boots up, and certain system caches get cleared and rebuilt, third party system modifications and system accelerations are disabled temporarily.

Login and test. Reboot  as normal and test.  Caches get rebuilt automatically.

This test will tell you if third party interference; most extensions etc are not loaded in safe boot mode.  

—Test issue in another user (or guest user) account Change Users & Groups settings on Mac - Apple Support

 This will tell you if it a universal issue or isolated to your user/admin account. 

***if you have a wireless keyboard with rechargeable batteries connect the charging cable before booting to Safe Mode.  This will make it act as a wired keyboard and will result in a successful Safe Boot mode.

 unplug all non-essential  peripherals when testing

 Uninstall all third party apps that are Cleaners/Optimizers/VPN/Anti-Virus

all known to cause issues on the macOS

Luke23_00 wrote:

I am moving a folder by hovering it over the cmd tab app icons, and as you can see, it creates lag for the folder and dock

I would drag & drop it to the Dock on your application of choice if that is what you are trying to do—and compare your results.

I might not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but never in 15 years have I seen this as a preferred method for moving a file or folder...

Can someone explain why this happens?

what are you trying to do here exactly— not a workflow I am familiar with...(?)

I use command tab to see and change between active running apps

The HUD (heads up display using command tab) is not the Dock. Maybe I am missing something.