Preserving folder structure... Photos

ringspa wrote:

Just a general caution about importing large photos collections into Photos unless you want to share them on iCloud. For local libraries the photos are copied into the library package and it gets huge and very difficult to move or back up and just keeps growing. I don't think it will preserve folder structure, it sounds like you are already organized you just need a tool across the top and Photos is a very heavy solution and difficult to unwind.

I use Lightroom for my Canon RAW/JPEG files which I organize on external HDD by subfolders etc and Lightroom references those files in its catalog rather than sucking them into a library like Photos does. The problem there is perpetual subscription unless you really need the features of Adobe and I may be seeking alternative for that at some point. I am sure there are other solutions that do similar catalog approach you can just point at your existing organization.

As for the iCloud sync etc, if you turn on optimization to only have the lower res on your local machine then bear in mind the only place your photos exist full size will be on Apple iCloud. Depends what are you looking to get out of iCloud - is it for sharing, or backup? Personally I just use iCloud just for sharing (i.e. all my iPhone pics available on my Mac), I prefer to have the full size of those on my computer so they are then backed up locally and use BackBlaze for cloud backup.

Just my 2 cents having been buried in Photos libraries and still digging out, hope this helps.

I use ID Imager PhotoSupreme. One-off payment, not subsription. Great dev (responds to emails). If your metadata is written to images it should import it. If not contact dev and he'll tell you if it can be done and how to do it.

Just a general caution about importing large photos collections into Photos unless you want to share them on iCloud. For local libraries the photos are copied into the library package and it gets huge and very difficult to move or back up and just keeps growing. I don't think it will preserve folder structure, it sounds like you are already organized you just need a tool across the top and Photos is a very heavy solution and difficult to unwind.

I use Lightroom for my Canon RAW/JPEG files which I organize on external HDD by subfolders etc and Lightroom references those files in its catalog rather than sucking them into a library like Photos does. The problem there is perpetual subscription unless you really need the features of Adobe and I may be seeking alternative for that at some point. I am sure there are other solutions that do similar catalog approach you can just point at your existing organization.

As for the iCloud sync etc, if you turn on optimization to only have the lower res on your local machine then bear in mind the only place your photos exist full size will be on Apple iCloud. Depends what are you looking to get out of iCloud - is it for sharing, or backup? Personally I just use iCloud just for sharing (i.e. all my iPhone pics available on my Mac), I prefer to have the full size of those on my computer so they are then backed up locally and use BackBlaze for cloud backup.

Just my 2 cents having been buried in Photos libraries and still digging out, hope this helps.

Riverside_Guy wrote:

First, how does it decide which ones to upload to my iCloud and which to keep local (just upgraded my storage there from 50G to 200G and my whole library is something like 50G)? ... I'd like to clear some space on my internal SSD, so I'd want to delete them locally after they all get uploaded.

Putting together what the two previous replies have told you:

YOU DECIDE what gets uploaded to iCloud. The Photos System Library has its contents uploaded to iCloud, when you activate Photos in iCloud. You can have as many other Photos Libraries as you want ... only the System Library gets uploaded to iCloud, the others are stored locally, and those other Libraries can be moved to external drives and still accessed and used from there in order to reduce internal drive storage use.

You absolutely should keep copies or backups locally of everything of value to you. But once you have those full size copies/backups done, you can tell iCloud to keep only small thumbnails on your Mac, with the full size image files stored in iCloud. I never do this myself but it does significantly reduce local storage when that option is selected.

Riverside_Guy wrote:

So with my brand new M4 Mini, I'm finally going to get my photos much better organized that they had been. So I have several questions about Photos.

Photos does not really give you any way to organize your Photos. You can create albums and such, but that's strictly inside the user interface. If you have some very specific organization method in mind, then you may be disappointed.

You can read more about Photos here: Photos - Official Apple Support (yes, that's the iOS version. Mac version is the same.)

and here: Photos User Guide for Mac - Apple Support

There aren't any extra features. It does what it says it does and that's it.

First, how does it decide which ones to upload to my iCloud and which to keep local

Everything is uploaded to iCloud. It keeps local, high-resolution versions of the photos you access the most.

Set up and use iCloud Photos - Apple Support

And can I tell which is where?

No.

Am I correct in thinking anything tht is in my iCloud I do not have to maintain a local copy for?

It does that for you. This is what I referred to above. It does what it does. You don't tweak anything.

While I will keep my collection offline on flash drives (plus the boot RAID on my cMP and a clone spinner, more than enough backup) I'd like to clear some space on my internal SSD, so I'd want to delete them locally after they all get uploaded.

Don't try that. That will delete them everywhere.

I'm not sure what you mean about flash drives, boot RAIDs, cMP, and clone spinners. None of that sounds good. It sounds like you are in for a painful experience with a new Mac.

Thing is, I have tons of raw files that I have in a whole folder structure.

Not for long... 😄

My first concern is if I import these into Photos, will it KEEP the same folder structure in it's "Albums?"

Absolutely not.

There's a master folder than many subfolders under it... I need to maintain that structure.

I could just tell you that you won't be doing that with Photos and recommend something else.

But here's the thing. Apple does this pretty well. It can be a serious burden to keep your data organized in this fashion. I'm sure you also have some convoluted process to import them as well. Apple tries to remove those burdens. You take pictures with your phone and they are automatically imported and organized for you.

If you are importing a lot of data to start with, you might have to let it sit for a while to let it organize your data. So before deciding to throw it all out and roll your own, give it an honest try. Keep a backup of your existing structure. Don't throw anything away. But give Apple a chance.

Now I'd like to have better editing tools than what Photos gives me, so I'm thinking of Photomator. It actually makes a distinction between stuff in "Photos" and those kept in files. If I import stuff there, will it go to Photos and thus iCloud or depend on local files?

Do you mean Pixelmator Pro? Apple just bought that app. It all works together pretty well. You can always export originals.

Riverside_Guy wrote:

So with my brand new M4 Mini, I'm finally going to get my photos much better organized that they had been. So I have several questions about Photos. First, how does it decide which ones to upload to my iCloud and which to keep local (just upgraded my storage there from 50G to 200G and my whole library is something like 50G)? And can I tell which is where? Am I correct in thinking anything tht is in my iCloud I do not have to maintain a local copy for?

iCloud is a synchronization service. Your photos remain on device and are synced to iCloud. You can reduce the size of your photo library on device by optimizing photos (settings > photos) which keeps originals in iCloud and reduced size versions on device. Any changes that you make (add, edit, delete) are reflected on device, in iCloud, and on any other connected device. You can store your photo library on an external drive to save room on your Mac.

Move your Photos library to save space on your Mac - Apple Support

Your photo structure will remain in tact if you drag/drop your files into photos. I'm not sure to how many levels, I only use 2 (year, event) and all photos are in the "event" folder.

First, how does it decide which ones to upload to my iCloud

Any images in the System Photo Library are added to the iCloud Photo Library. If an image is not in the system Photo Library then it will not be automatically added to iCloud.

Am I correct in thinking anything that is in my iCloud I do not have to maintain a local copy for?

This is incorrect, as muguy explains.

For local libraries the photos are copied into the library package and it gets huge and very difficult to move or back up and just keeps growing.

It gets no bigger than your Lightroom Library, just kept in a single place. And moving it is easy, as is backing it up if you use any back up app that works in increments - among them Time Machine (on your Mac and free), CarbonCopyCloner, SuperDuper!), and it only grows - just like your Lightroom Library -, by the amount you put into it. As for worrying about the space it takes, well it's perfectly possible to run the Photos Library from any external drive formatted Mac OS X Extended, Journaled or apfs

Pretty much all the alternatives to Lightroom use a subscription model, or f the do offer a perpetual licence, they're trying to move away from that. I would suggest looking at Mylio (https://mylio.com/), but it's hard to beat the value of the Lightroom subscription when you consider all that comes with it.

Just my 2 cents having been buried in Photos libraries and still digging out, hope this helps.

What is that so difficult? Have you tried exporting?

I think we've had this conversation before, very familiar with export, still not a fan of importing large photo collections into it except for iCloud sharing. Depends on the usage - 50gb is probably fine if it's not growing but @riverside_guy can evaluate his options.

etresoft wrote:

But here's the thing. Apple does this pretty well. It can be a serious burden to keep your data organized in this fashion. I'm sure you also have some convoluted process to import them as well. Apple tries to remove those burdens. You take pictures with your phone and they are automatically imported and organized for you.

This is true if you mainly take pictures with your iPhone. If your main camera is not your iPhone then it's just as serious a burden to keep data organized when importing images to Photos, although in reality it's not much of a burden either way. The main reason I don't use Photos is that (at least the last time I checked) there's no hirearchy in labelling images. If I label an image "911 L" then the image automtically picks up "Porsche", "Cars", "Land Vehicles", "Transport", etc. because "911 L " sits at the bottom of that hierarchy.

I use ID Imager PhotoSupreme. One-off payment, not subsription

An excellent app but in that it does not have image editing/processing without recourse to an external editor, nor any cloud features, it's not exactly a like-for-like comparison.

The most important thing about Photos is that it works really quite well for its target audience, who are, as you suggest, primarily Phone shooters who really want as much automation as possible.

Yer_Man wrote:

I use ID Imager PhotoSupreme. One-off payment, not subsription

An excellent app but in that it does not have image editing/processing without recourse to an external editor, nor any cloud features, it's not exactly a like-for-like comparison.

The most important thing about Photos is that it works really quite well for its target audience, who are, as you suggest, primarily Phone shooters who really want as much automation as possible.

Good point about editing. I hadn't considered editing cos I don't edit my pics except for the occasional rotation to level things up and the tools that PhotoSupreme has have always been OK for that.

Not meaning to argue with you, simply to clarify. FWIW I don't actually use Photos myself as it doesn't suit my needs, and simply maintain test library for the purposes of this forum.