MacBook Neo: Is SSD storage virtual RAM?

No, it does not.

The MacBook Neo is presumably capable of using some SSD space as swap space, or “virtual RAM”, but if you were overloading virtual memory with 308 GB of total address space of which 300 GB was on disk, you’d see performance collapse.

Putting aside the virtual memory mapping of read-only files for the moment, the maximum amount of swap space you are going to see the Mac using under any practical scenario is going to be orders of magnitude smaller than 300 GB.

So if you are planning to run applications that need far more than 8 GB of RAM, you should pick a Mac that has the amount needed and not expect the very cheapest, most entry level machine to handle the same sort of load as a very-high-end Mac loaded with all of the real RAM that you can buy.

The Neo is not the platform I would pick for Final Cut Pro or Logic Pro. There are other Macs, including M5-family MacBook Airs and MacBook Pros, that can be configured in a way more suitable for that sort of pro use.

With respect to basic use, see

https://www.nytimes.com/wirecutter/reviews/apple-macbook-neo-review/

https://www.tomsguide.com/computing/macbooks/apple-macbook-neo-review

gulmatan wrote:

Why don't reviews focus on software that the rest of the world uses?

Because reviewers assume the Neo should perform up to the standards of a M3 Studio Ultra with 96GB of RAM and 4TB internal storage. Since it doesn’t it’s declared unfit for professional use. It’s just how things work in the Apple universe when it comes to reviews. It's never enough, always lacking, always behind, always failing. Its been that way since 4/1/1976.

gulmatan wrote:

See? That's what's so insulting…

What's un-pro about MS Office or Apple's own Office suite? What's so un-pro about accounting, database managent, medical patient, prescription management software, scientific/genetics softwate, basically any non-entertainment industry software. There are professions that are more important than the entertainment industry and I'm certain that the Neo is capable and robust enough to handle the computing needs of these professions that don't revolve around the entertainment industry.

The Neo is not a platform that I would recommend for running scientific/genetics software locally. My impression is that a lot of that software requires or benefits from large amounts of RAM. The Neo is only available with 8 GB of RAM. There was once a Mac (the 2019 Intel-based Mac Pro minitower) that could take as much as 1.5 TB of RAM. The Apple Silicon Mac Pro (now discontinued) could be ordered with 192 GB of RAM, and you can still get anywhere from 96 GB to 128 GB of RAM on top-of-the-line Apple Silicon Macs (depending on model).

Now I suppose you could take a large number of Macs and string them together into a huge distributed computing system in which each individual Mac did not necessarily require such large amounts of RAM. But if you were doing that, it would make much more sense to use Mac minis or Mac Studios as the computing nodes.

With regard to medical patient record keeping, it appears to me that a lot of that is done these days using third-party cloud-based services ("software as a service"). A lot of organizations use MyChart, and I've come across other, less-well-known service operated by third-parties and rented out to multiple medical provider subscribers. Here, the software running on your computer is just a Web browser (like Safari) that acts as a front end to display the information provided by a Web portal. In such cases, there are likely multiple compute and database servers, with Windows-based or Linux-based container images spun up and down as required based on load. Your Mac, PC, Chromebook, phone, or tablet doesn't need to be able to run all of the the record-keeping software since it is acting as a fancier version of a text terminal from the days of mini-computers and time-sharing.

lkrupp wrote:

gulmatan wrote:

Why don't reviews focus on software that the rest of the world uses?

Because reviewers assume the Neo should perform up to the standards of a M3 Studio Ultra with 96GB of RAM and 4TB internal storage. Since it doesn’t it’s declared unfit for professional use. It’s just how things work in the Apple universe when it comes to reviews. It's never enough, always lacking, always behind, always failing. Its been that way since 4/1/1976.

By definition, hardware reviews don't focus on apps. Reviewers just make comparisons so that their audience can be informed as to the level of performance that can be expected from a hardware. An uninformed consumer cannot make the best decisions regarding what is appropriate for their needs.

It's important to remember that in the professional world, time is money. Pro-level hardware can get a job done in the least amount of time vs its consumer-level counterparts. The Neo isn't that hardware.

The fact is that the Neo is simply an entry level Mac that doesn't have the chops to do the heavy lifting require by apps like FCP, Logic Pro, Avid and other pro-level, RAM hungry, processor intensive applications that are used in many creative and other industries.

If one buys an entry level machine, one can expect it to run entry level apps just fine. Garage Band, Pages, Numbers and all of the included macOS apps are entry level apps that the Neo will happily run. But one shouldn't expect the Neo to run pro-level apps and shouldn't be disappointed or upset when it can't. It isn't designed to. If one wants or needs to use a particular software, then one must buy the hardware required.

gulmatan wrote:

D.I. Johnson,

See? That's what's so insulting-MS Office is certainly not entry level software. It's been used for decades by business professionals as well as professionals in other careers. Its suite has been used to create proposal, quarterly reports, business presentations, RFPs (Request for Proposals), all manner of business literature and Excel-based documents as well as presentations and manuscripts.

I never mentioned MS-Office, but since you have, I'd say it arguably is entry level. Businesses of any size from SOHO to Fortune 500 can generally afford to purchase and use the suite.

It certainly is not a suite that requires high-end pro hardware, and in fact, I believe it will run on the Neo.

System requirements for MS 365 for Business, Edu, Gov't - MS Support

The exact same can be said for iWork/Apple Works. And to call these entry-level software is not only insulting to those of us who use these software packages, it's also insulting to the professions in which these sets of software are used in.

Not only that, to call Microsoft Office and iWork/Apple Works entry level software is an insult to Microsoft and Apple.

I don't understand why you feel insulted by my classification of any software package as entry level. It is not a description of you or your position or status in business. It seems to me there are other real things one could be insulted by, but I guess it's a personal choice.

Regardless, we are, after all, still really talking about the MacBook Neo. Seeing that the Neo can apparently do the job for you, then if you like, we can call the Neo a pro-level machine. Just like we can call a Speak & Spell a pro-level machine if used in education.

Have a nice day.

gulmatan,

No apology required here my friend. Thanks, though.

If I may make a suggestion, however, one should try not to take things such as what reviewers say - about anything really - as a personal hit. These are just folks doing a job.

I don't imagine the critics and reviewers you reference would say that word processors and spreadsheets aren't functionally important, but the truth is that apps of some types simply don't really require the raw horsepower or hardware resources of other types. I think you and I can both agree on that.

And after all, who really cares what Joe the hardware reviewer has to say about software? 😉

If you're considering buying a MacBook Neo, just keep in mind the system requirements of any software that you think you'll want to use. If the MB Neo meets those requirements then it's viable. If it doesn't, then you'll just have to consider something else.

Apple offers this guidance, which you may find useful:

Mac - Which Mac is best for me? - Apple

Cheers!

gulmatan wrote:

Servant of Cats,

When Macs, MacBook Pros, MacBook Pros with eight gigabytes of RAM were first made available, people bought them and those models were powerful and capable enough for their Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro stuff then. So, what's so inferior about eight gigabytes of RAM now? Final Cut Pro, Logic Pro, etc. are still being used today. What makes those programs so different now that eight gigs is insufficient now? What could possibly be so different with those programs that all of a sudden eight gigs is not enough?

One reason is how the existing software is designed changes and those changes can require more memory. Usually new versions of an app will add new features and those new features may require more memory. Since AI is the big thing now, everyone is trying to integrate AI into their products and AI requires more memory & processing power.

Plus as the baseline memory increases in new devices, some developers can become lazy and not optimize their code as well which can eat up memory.

And another reason is macOS itself is requiring more memory to run itself even without any third party software installed. Again due to everything I've already mentioned.

I saw one contributor suggest if someone has been using an iPad and wanted a bit more, then the NEO would be fine. I think that is the best way to explain it since the NEO is a bit more than an iPad, but doesn't have a touch screen. And a NEO is much less than the current MBAir.

Unfortunately people make purchase decisions based on price and ignore the hardware specifications & capabilities of the device. The regular contributors here on this forum see so many people using underpowered systems because they don't do their research. As for why no one reviews MS Office performance is because the office suite will work perfectly fine unless you are dealing with huge documents. The average user typically does not and anyone who does should already know that they need a system with a bit more resources to accommodate those situations. If you think the reviewers are not doing a good job, then you should become a reviewer to fill that niche.

Keep in mind that a person needs to make sure the device they purchase will be sufficient for at least five years for their current needs and possible future needs. If a person anticipates doing more, then the NEO may not be the best choice unless they are willing to buy a new device to accommodate those new needs if they do arise.

gulmatan wrote:

D.I. Johnson,

See? That's what's so insulting-MS Office is certainly not entry level software. It's been used for decades by business professionals as well as professionals in other careers. Its suite has been used to create proposal, quarterly reports, business presentations, RFPs (Request for Proposals), all manner of business literature and Excel-based documents as well as presentations and manuscripts.

I'm not really sure what point you're trying to make here. But just because a lot of people, many in business situations, use MS Office, doesn't mean that it requires a high-powered computer. I would argue that it is "entry level" in the sense it's software a very large percentage of computer users know how to use and use regularly. Web browsers are common, ubiquitous and used by people just learning how to use computers. So, you could say they are "entry level."

Not only that, to call Microsoft Office and iWork/Apple Works entry level software is an insult to Microsoft and Apple.

Why? Why is it insulting to note that something can be used by both beginners and experts?