Mission Control Mac OS 27

chet134 wrote:

The industry has no ability or desire to learn from their previous mistakes and prevent them in the future.

If that were true, they wouldn't release updated versions.

This is my last reply to you; it's clear you're not really interested in learning anything.

New version should be providing increased capability and performance. Updates that reintroduce the same problems that occurred two OS versions ago show that the industry has no ability to maintain configuration control or any functional regression testing.

The industry has no ability or desire to learn from their previous mistakes and prevent them in the future.

If that were true, they wouldn't release updated versions.

This is my last reply to you; it's clear you're not really interested in learning anything.

chet134 wrote:

I don't know how to say this gently enough to avoid triggering the censorhammer, but:

You clearly have no idea how the software industry works. Consider tempering your comments until you reach a better grasp of the realities of the industry.

I thought you explained them pretty clearly. The industry has no ability or desire to learn from their previous mistakes and prevent them in the future.

I don't know how to say this gently enough to avoid triggering the censorhammer, but:

You clearly have no idea how the software industry works. Consider tempering your comments until you reach a better grasp of the realities of the industry.

The tl;dr is that software is hard, but rewriting things from scratch is almost never how product problems get solved. Please don't suggest this in the future; it's just not accurate.

Wow. I had no idea the industry was so broken. “My job is so haarrrd, so we’ll just accept mediocrity.“

chet134 wrote:

I confirm your finding that the behavior is STILL broken under 27.0.1.

I sure do wish they'd get their act together.

I suspect releasing an immediate patch for a zero-day exploit potentially in the wild (which was the main content of the 27.0.1 update) took precedence over a minor UI bug. I would not expect Mission Control to be addressed until at least 27.1.

I confirm your finding that the behavior is STILL broken under 27.0.1.

I sure do wish they'd get their act together.

This "Move All" option was most likely available for years without me knowing. I was just used to Mission Control being the proper tool for this. And it actually is better for showing all open apps and dragging them as groups. I hope this gets fixed soon.

I just noticed on possible workaround for my old muscle memory routine. When you go to the Window menu of an app, you can move windows to other monitors. If you hold down the option key when this menu is open, it changes the option to "Move All"!!! Woohoo!

I reported this issue through Feedback under 27.0 and now again today under 27.0.1. No change with the update.

This is a real bummer trying to move multiple windows from and app from one monitor to the other. I thought GG was supposed to help better organize windows when switching locations like home and work or multiple monitors while docked, to the single screen while on the road, and back again when you plugged back in. It was easier to deal with this before with a single "handle" for the whole app. Maybe I am missing some simple new way to do drag them all at once?

"Then why is so much of it problematic, and why do problems that were fixed in the previous OS return? If they were starting from the previous os, the problems would have been fixed. "

Barney, let me say this gently: You do not appear to understand how software is written and improved over time. Let me try to educate you, because I've been in that business for decades.

Software is NEVER rewritten from scratch for new revisions. That is not viable economically or logistically. The products -- even simple applications -- are just too complex.

Instead, you iterate. You try to improve aspects, chiefly by adding features but also by streamlining code that came before, fixing bugs and improving performance.

Every new release of every package has some work from both categories, but from time to time you see a company release a version that is explicitly a "performance release" or a "stability release" where they spend MOST of their time improving things rather than building new capabilities. If I remember correctly, Snow Leopard was one such release of OS X (which is what we called MacOS in those days).

But at no point do software companies EVER rewrite whole products from scratch every year. That's just not a thing.

"If they were starting from the previous os, the problems would have been fixed. "

You'd think that, but it's a naive idea. Software is VERY complex. Sometimes, problems resurface. Sometimes things that the user experiences as "the same bug" come up again from entirely different underlying causes. One of the products our company sells had that happen last year; users were sure it was the same problem, but in reality it was merely similar undesirable behavior caused by an entirely different problem.

The tl;dr is that software is hard, but rewriting things from scratch is almost never how product problems get solved. Please don't suggest this in the future; it's just not accurate.

Weird, because that is EXACTLY how that function has worked for years and years.

I didn’t comment on how it worked in the past. I commented on how I would expect it to work to point out the possibility that Apple has decided to change the way it works. I don’t group windows by application because i want to see the content in the windows. So, I would never have known about the past behavior.

Being able to do this is pretty clearly the whole point of the "Group windows by application" option in Mission Control.

I mean, why else would that even exist?

I thought the point was to clean up the pile of windows.

With it enabled AND the current, erroneous GG behavior, you have zero control of which window is being dragged.

I could drag whichever window I selected. I’m not sure why you seem to have no control over that.

Following hints by neuroanatomist, dragging the app icon grabs all the windows.

With it enabled under Tahoe, it did the logical thing: drag all the grouped windows between Spaces or displays

"However, it appears that Apple rewrites the entire OS from scratch every year"

That is absolute nonsense. No product is rewritten from scratch annually, least of all operating systems.

Then why is so much of it problematic, and why do problems that were fixed in the previous OS return? If they were starting from the previous os, the problems would have been fixed.

You're right, I was imprecise.

But the behavior we're actually talking about is still broken in Golden Gate. Grabbing the ICON does not move the bundle of windows, which is the behavior we observe on prior editions of OS X/ MacOS.

So congrats on writing an illustrated novel over a word choice error on my part!

(Barney, for his part, seems to be laboring under a number of other misconceptions, so maybe we should leave him out of it. )

chet134 wrote:

I replied to your message precisely because it was ambiguous. "I certainly do not expect when I grab a window, even if it’s grouped by application, that it drags all of the grouped windows with it. "

Weird, because that is EXACTLY how that function has worked for years and years.

I think you need to READ more CAREFULLY.

In Mission Control on Tahoe (which is still running on the Mac I'm using now), when you 'grab a window, even if it’s grouped by application' only the window that you grab is dragged and able to be moved to another Space. The statement by @Barney-15E is perfectly correct, unlike your recollection of the behavior that is not working in Golden Gate.

With Group windows by application OFF, the windows are not grouped, obviously.

With that setting on, in addition to the grouping, note that there there is an icon for the application by which the windows are grouped under each group. When you grab just one window of a group, only that window moves. You can see that here, where only one of the three Safari windows (this window that I'm typing in) is being dragged leaving the other two grouped windows behind:

Only when you grab the application icon under the group and drag that does the whole group move, as you can see here, where I grabbed the Safari app icon and not just one window:

I replied to your message precisely because it was ambiguous.

"I certainly do not expect when I grab a window, even if it’s grouped by application, that it drags all of the grouped windows with it. "

Weird, because that is EXACTLY how that function has worked for years and years.

Being able to do this is pretty clearly the whole point of the "Group windows by application" option in Mission Control. I mean, why else would that even exist? With it enabled AND the current, erroneous GG behavior, you have zero control of which window is being dragged. With it enabled under Tahoe, it did the logical thing: drag all the grouped windows between Spaces or displays.

"However, it appears that Apple rewrites the entire OS from scratch every year"

That is absolute nonsense. No product is rewritten from scratch annually, least of all operating systems.

chet134 wrote:

Are you saying that you can drag all the windows of a given app between Spaces with one action under GG?

That’s not what I stated. I specifically stated that I can’t do that several messages ago. You should read back further. Nobody here works for Apple or speaks for Apple, so knowing what Apple has decided whether they failed to make it work in Golden Gate or they chose to make it not do that in Golden Gate is unknown to everyone here.

I certainly do not expect when I grab a window, even if it’s grouped by application, that it drags all of the grouped windows with it. If I want all application windows in one desktop, I will assign the application to that desktop. So, it is entirely possible that Apple decided to design it to work the way it currently works. However, it appears that Apple rewrites the entire OS from scratch every year. So, it may be something they failed to implement when they rewrote the OS.

I do find it interesting that Apple “broke“ several things that I have never used. I do know that Apple collects usage data, and I assume that’s to determine what kind of features people use and the features that they don’t use so that they can trim trim fat out of the OS.