File Sharing broken in Golden Gate upgrade completely.

smtips wrote:

The other Mac is running Sierra, and never had an issue through Tahoe or any other previous (Sequoia) OS on the Mac Min M4.

I can connect fine from the older Sierra Mac to my current one, through File Sharing. I checked the version I'm connecting to on the new Mac through Terminal and the version that comes with Golden Gate is the same version as it's been for a long long time, SMB 3.0.2.

I would expect SMB3 with Golden Gate. There are major known issues with SMB 1 & 2.

Interestingly, I have an almost identical setup at my girlfriend's house on the computers there. And connecting from the Mac running Golden Gate to one running Catalina works just fine. Only difference here is Catalina, not Sierra and it works fine, which belies what Apple told me about it being incompatible with Macs running Intel. If that were the case it wouldn't be working at all connecting to Catalina either. So, that's a big you-know-what.

The important question is what version of SMB macOS Sierra is hosting. My guess is Sierra is defaulting to an older version when setting up Sharing in order to maintain compatibility with various systems back in 2016. Now that default SMB setting is causing you problems. Since macOS Sierra is able to connect to Golden Gate, then Sierra should be capable of hosting an SMB3 share, but I have no idea how you go about manually configuring that as the minimum version when enabling File Sharing.

I did find this old Apple article on how to disable older SMB 1 & 2 protocols (not sure if it also applies to Sierra, but the Apple article does not make any distinctions). However, the Apple article provides an incorrect Terminal command so ignore the Terminal commands shown in this article. I'm providing the correct command below. After modifying the nsmb.conf file (or creating it)....you should reboot the computer.

How to disable SMB 1 or NetBIOS in macOS - Apple Support

Disable SMB 1 & 2 as well as NetBIOS

printf "[default]\n\nprotocol_vers_map=6\n\nport445=no_netbios\n" |  sudo tee -a /etc/nsmb.conf

Now, here's what JUST happened when I connected from the Sierra Mac to the Golden Gate Mac, because that way works fine...I thought.

I copied a folder full of files from the new Mac to the old Mac via File Sharing. As I watched, each file VANISHED from the Mac Mini side after it finished copying. Gone. I let the run finish, it was about 25 gigs. And all those files that did exist on the Mac Mini are simply nowhere to be found after copying them. This makes zero sense, in all my years using Macs for the last 30 years, I have NEVER seen anything like this occur. So now, whatever BUG is in File sharing in Golden Gate is causing DATA LOSS.

I have not heard of any bugs regarding Finder copy operations which delete data, but I have heard of data loss when moving files (copy & delete in a single operation).

The Mac tech I was talking to did find it curious that I could connect to the Mac mini from the Sierra machine but not the other way around.

The tech would need to be knowledgeable about both SMB (old & new) as well as older versions of macOS (both technical & how those older versions behaved & how File Sharing worked). Apple doesn't provide much in the way of clear documentation especially tiny differences in behavior or specific technical details (some times Apple will, other times not).

In fact back in the day Apple used a standard open source SMB implementation, but later on changed to using their own custom SMB implementation. I don't recall when this occurred, but it may have been Sierra and High Sierra since some stuff I located seemed to indicate a change with High Sierra.

In the file sharing settings, make sure you’ve allowed SMB users full disk access. That area you get about the folder or directory or whatever being missing happens when you don’t have full disk access enabled for SMB users.

I did find a workaround... VNC still works between Golden Gate and older Macs, so I can drag-and-drop from the new Mac to the old Mac.

smtips wrote:

Edit: Okay I called support, they checked with their Tier 2 after doing all the standard troubleshooting, and they said that Golden gate is not going to be compatible with older versions of SMB on other machines because it was an issue with the new OS no longer supporting Intel things.

So per Apple's own support, File Sharing via SMB supposedly will no longer work if you are connecting to a machine that is older and not running Golden Gate, because any Intel based machine will no longer support SMB connections to it from Golden Gate.

Older Macs may only support old outdated SMB protocols which are known to be huge security issues. Those older SMB protocols are no longer allowed.

You neglected to mention the version of macOS being used on the older Mac. However, if that older Mac is capable of connecting to the newer one, then I would expect that older version of macOS to support a valid version of SMB. The problem may be that the older Mac is not configured to use a newer supported version of the SMB protocol. It may be possible to edit the older Mac's SMB configuration to only allow support for the newer SMB protocol required by macOS 27.

Unfortunately I don't know which SMB versions are allowed by macOS 27, nor what versions various older versions of macOS supported. Nor do I know how to force the older Mac to utilize a specific SMB protocol version (may be dependent on the actual version of macOS since I know Apple changed to their own SMB software some years ago). My knowledge of macOS SMB is nearly non-existent, and even my Linux SMB knowledge is limited since I rarely need to configure it once I have it all setup. It has been years since I last created or modified an SMB share.

The other thing I thought of while reading your post is maybe the macOS 27 system is utilizing save connection details which are now broken. If you delete those saved connections & perhaps even saved credentials, then maybe when you manually reconnect to the older system macOS 27 will now have the proper connection info & credentials.

Knowing the version of macOS on the older Mac and which SMB version protocol is currently configured on the older Mac would help. I won't be of much use, but that information may help another more knowledgeable contributor to assist you.

FYI, years ago I tried to enable sharing between two Macs running two different versions of macOS and was unable to do so at that time (the need wasn't sufficient for me to take the time to figure it out). This is nothing new with macOS. Unfortunately macOS will sometimes hide the critical parts from users making troubleshooting & configuration much harder than it otherwise would/should be.

smtips wrote:

"I did find a workaround... VNC still works between Golden Gate and older Macs, so I can drag-and-drop from the new Mac to the old Mac."

I can't locate a VNC client that works, I have never had a need to use one. Tried Real VNC it wants me to create an online account to use it, which um, why do I need an online account to connect apps between my own computers. Looked at some others but they won't work on Golden Gate. VNC is enabled on the older Mac. So perhaps if you say what VNC you're using I can look at it.

macOS already has built-in VNC support. Just enable Remote Access on the older Mac (make sure VNC is checked). One the newer Mac you can use Finder --> Go --> Connect to Server..... where you can either enter "vnc://<address-of-older-mac>" or by using the "Browse" button to locate the other Mac.

If you are familiar with the command line, then you could use an SSH session or 'scp" which is an SSH Copy command to transfer items securely between two systems. There may even be some GUI app which could assist with this on the Golden Gate side.

D.E. Emery wrote:

It sure seems to me it should be MY DECISION and not Apple's decision to support a potentially compromised connection.

If you want full control over everything, then you are using the wrong OS and hardware. Everything Apple has been doing for the past 20 years has been moving their computers & macOS to an iPad/iOS like experience.

Apple has always catered to a more simplistic user experience with macOS so that people who are not technical, people who may be afraid of computers/technology can use an Apple device safely & securely. That is who Apple is targeting.

Plus leaving the old insecure code for older SMB versions is a burden on Apple and makes it more likely for mistakes to happen. Every bit of code on a system is a potential security risk & vector for the miscreants out their to compromise people's machines.

I have a Mac Mini running older software (hosted on an older version of Java, not my call...) on my local network. There's NO freakin' risk associated with my connecting from a Golden Gate machine to an older machine ON MY LOCAL NETWORK. Sure, make me click through a "this could be unsafe" warning. But to just ARBITRARILY DECIDE WITH NO WARNING YOU CAN NO LONGER CONNECT TO OLDER MACs is just bogus!

Everybody is getting rid of SMB 1 & 2....some faster than others. People said the same thing about Apple no longer providing floppy drives and optical drives, etc.

Besides, if you read my post without getting upset, then you would see that I mentioned you should be able to connect to that older system from Golden Gate. If the old system can connect to Golden Gate, then it should certainly be able to go the other way. Golden Gate is serving up a newer version of SMB & the old system can connect to Golden Gate's share. This means the old system should be capable of serving up a compatible version as well (you may just need to disable SMB 1 & 2 on that older system first).

Edit: Have you tried using Air Drop to transfer files?

After setting the iMac to allow remote management by anyone without a password - when I attempt to connect via VNC, the Golden Gate Air nevertheless demands a login & password - and after I enter my admin creds (same on both Macs), it still just says "connecting" and never resolves. I let it spin for an hour.

However, the Golden Gate Air *does* connect to my wife's Tahoe MBP over the local network. Instantly and without any login prompts. I can open its files on my Air right from the network window. Click the arrow and it displays the MBP's folders, which it does not do for the iMac. It's a 2020 MBP, Intel core i5 (that surprised me). Same processor as my 2015 iMac. It's not an Intel problem.

Nor is it an outdated SMB problem. Both the iMac & MBP are running Apple SMBclient 3, according to System Report. Remember, the MBP was updated to Tahoe via Software Update *one day* before my Air got Golden Gate. Did SMB 3 go from current to dangerously obsolete overnight? And if so, why no security patch for Tahoe?

Further, if Golden Gate was intended to deprecate file-sharing with my iMac (for any reason), why does the Air display the iMac in the sidebar & network window? Why does Golden Gate's Music display the songs in the iMac's shared library? Most of all, why does Golden Gate allow unhindered access to the Air's files from a 2015 Intel/El Capitan iMac?! This doesn't appear to be a security measure in Golden Gate. Just a bug.

I am grateful to you all for helping us rule out some plausible issues. Next?

Continued....

Of course I had backups of the files copied, as well as the copied versions that went to the Sierra Mac. But this is completely bizarre and unacceptable. And I would consider calling Apple again about it, but with a Sierra Mac in the midst they are just gonna blame the old machine, even though the files disappeared off the new one. I won't waste my time here, I'm going to wipe it and go back to using Tahoe for now, and wait til someone with some pull picks up on this SMB issue, like they did with the whole window resizing issue. It took getting a lot of press for Apple to fix it.

I'm glad you have good backups. While this has always been important, it is even more important these days with all the hardware, software, and security changes which can make the data stored on the internal SSD inaccessible.

FYI, I find it is usually best to wait at least three months before upgrading to a new OS to give the developer (Apple in the case of macOS) time to fix release/launch day bugs. Other benefits are allowing third party developers time to update their apps for full compatibility with the new OS. People should also do some research to see what issues others are encountering in general and with specific apps. It is generally a good idea if you can test the new OS first before upgrading the main OS installation (usually an installing macOS to an external boot drive is the easiest way to minimize interfering with the main OS, but booting macOS from an external drive is not so easy these days with Apple Silicon Macs, plus some macOS features may not be available).

It sure seems to me it should be MY DECISION and not Apple's decision to support a potentially compromised connection.

I have a Mac Mini running older software (hosted on an older version of Java, not my call...) on my local network. There's NO freakin' risk associated with my connecting from a Golden Gate machine to an older machine ON MY LOCAL NETWORK. Sure, make me click through a "this could be unsafe" warning. But to just ARBITRARILY DECIDE WITH NO WARNING YOU CAN NO LONGER CONNECT TO OLDER MACs is just bogus!