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RicM

Q: Hardware Configurations for Final Cut Server

I am a small video production shop, currently running 2 standalone FCP stations; one Intel tower FCP7 with about 3T of firewire 800 Raid 1 storage, and one PPC G5 tower FCP6, on a gigibit ethernet network with a central NAS. I am adding a 3d station and a new employee. The problem we have run into is that many assets seem to always reside on the wrong system, and duplicate projects become impossible to resolve and archive effectively. We shoot exclusively on HDV.
This is the setup I am considering....
Convert the Intel Mac Pro tower to Final Cut Server
Buy 3 27"iMacs for edit stations
My plan would be to have all projects reside on the FCPServer and edit on 422 Proxy versions on the iMacs. I understand that each iMac would need a copy of FCP. Would they all need to be FCP7 to work on the same project at different times?
Other questions:
Would working on a gigabit ethernet network be a bottleneck?
Could I ingest video directly to the server? Is there a way to capture 422 video onto the server or would that require a separate copy of FCP on the server to capture from tape? If so could I use the older FCP6 copy withot upgrading just for capture? Alternately could I use a copy of FCExpress on the server just to create a project and capture on the server then open and convert to FCP7?
Any suggestions for what to do with the Dual 2.5G PowerPC Tower?

Dual 2.5G Power PC, Mac OS X (10.4.11)

Posted on Sep 15, 2010 1:38 PM

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Q: Hardware Configurations for Final Cut Server

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  • by A. Richards,Helpful

    A. Richards A. Richards Sep 15, 2010 7:09 PM in response to RicM
    Level 3 (625 points)
    Sep 15, 2010 7:09 PM in response to RicM
    RicM asked: I understand that each iMac would need a copy of FCP. Would they all need to be FCP7 to work on the same project at different times?


    If you want to use ProRes422 Proxy, yes, you need FCP7. FCP6 isn't equipped.

    RicM asked: Would working on a gigabit ethernet network be a bottleneck?


    You wouldn't be streaming over Ethernet, you'd be checking out the project and downloading the edit proxies to the iMacs for local editing. Checking the project back in will ink it back to the original media on the server.

    RicM asked: Could I ingest video directly to the server?


    Yes, but not with FCSvr itself. It does not have any built-in capture capability.

    RicM asked: Is there a way to capture 422 video onto the server or would that require a separate copy of FCP on the server to capture from tape?


    There are alternatives to FCP7, but FCSvr does not have any built-in capture capability.

    RicM asked: If so could I use the older FCP6 copy withot upgrading just for capture?


    You'd need to run it on a different machine. Since FCSvr uses Compressor to do all its encoding, the Compressor and Qmaster version mismatch between FCP6 and FCSvr 1.5 could be a problem.

    RicM asked: Alternately could I use a copy of FCExpress on the server just to create a project and capture on the server then open and convert to FCP7?


    Maybe, but FCSvr would not be able read the FCE project files. I suppose you could use FCE to ingest your HDV to the server's storage and have FCSvr scan that location.

    RicM asked: Any suggestions for what to do with the Dual 2.5G PowerPC Tower?


    If you want to keep using FCP6 (by the way, not cricket if you leveraged it to use an upgrade license of FCP7) and the G5 make it your ingest rig or you can just make it a Qmaster node (I think you can install the Qmaster that comes with FCSvr 1.5 on a G5).
  • by Vitali,Helpful

    Vitali Vitali Sep 15, 2010 10:58 PM in response to A. Richards
    Level 1 (40 points)
    Sep 15, 2010 10:58 PM in response to A. Richards
    Well, you could install a BlackMagic card and Tool On Air Just:In app to ingest straight on a FCSvr machine into a watchfolder. For two edits, it might just do it. Or just use your G5 as an ingest station: you just have to make it do with FCP6, since FCP7 is Intel only.

    Yes, you can use FCP 6 with FCSvr 1.5. As to different versions of Compressor, you will just have to decide if you want use your edits as a part of the Qmaster cluster. If yes, then you can't send to Compressor straight from FCP ( since your edits will have an upgraded version of Qmaster), you will have to send the asset to FCSvr and then transcode by using, let's say, an export function.
  • by John F. Whitehead,

    John F. Whitehead John F. Whitehead Sep 16, 2010 12:33 AM in response to RicM
    Level 2 (380 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 12:33 AM in response to RicM
    You don't want Final Cut Express, since it doesn't support HDV natively (it converts it all to Apple Intermediate Codec) and ProRes not at all.

    You could consider just editing in HDV rather than taking the hit to convert it all to ProRes. Whether it saves you time or visual quality depends on the type of editing you're doing.

    Note HDV is very compute-intensive and thus slower to edit than other formats, particularly if you're not on a Mac Pro with a mid-range graphics card.
  • by RicM,

    RicM RicM Sep 16, 2010 4:25 AM in response to RicM
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 4:25 AM in response to RicM
    Thank you all for great answers. Great answers often beget more questions... here goes.
    OK, I bite the bullet and buy 3 iMac 27" i5 machines, each with a new version of FCPStudio (why I need 3 versions of Motion I don't know but that's life in the fast lane I guess). Take my existing Dual 2.8 G Quad Core Xenon tower and stuff it full of 1T hardrives and put a copy of Final Cut Server on it in addition to the FCPStudio that's already there and make that the hub of the system. Do I assume correctly that the heavy lifting is done on the server? ie it will ingest, convert HDV media to 422 proxy, store all hi res footage & stills, and catalog same? Can I then automate the encoding of output on that server? For example a finished project needs to be output in QT at one resolution, WMV at 2 different sizes & resolution and Flash for streaming.
    This solution will end up costing me about $10K. Is there a better use of this money to organize and speed up our work flow?
    My current issue is that we have projects spread over two machines and sometimes 3-4 external hardrives, resulting in media chaos. I also have an employee that sits watching the render bar creep across her screen when she could be going on to the next project.
  • by A. Richards,

    A. Richards A. Richards Sep 16, 2010 6:06 AM in response to RicM
    Level 3 (625 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 6:06 AM in response to RicM
    Some thoughts:

    -Stuff the tower full of 4 2TB HDDs; you might as well go big before you build up your FCSvr. You can make a 6TB RAID-5 for drive failure protection if you also get an Apple RAID card for Mac Pro. You can do RAID-0 and have 8TB, but if any single drive int he RAID-0 fails you lose the whole thing.

    -You should also consider buying an SSD and OWC's optical bay adapter to use as a boot drive. Faster database I/O for FCSvr and you can dedicate your big drives to media duty. In fact, if you feel you can afford it, order your iMacs with SSD boot drives as well- it is a huge difference.

    -FCSvr can only do the heavy lifting in terms of output encoding to WM9 and FLV if you also buy Telestream's Episode plugin for Compressor. FCSvr can automate these encodes as well as uploads to the web (which I assume is where these WMV and FLV files are headed).

    -ProRes Proxy for 1440x1080 (38 Mpbs) is about 1.5 times the bitrate of HDV 1440x1080 (25 Mbps). So while you would be gaining a much more optimized codec for FCP to work with in ProRes, you'd be taking a big hit on your storage to do so.

    -FCSvr can archive your old footage to any storage it can see, and you can disconnect that storage. This would free up storage while preserving your assets and their proxies for searching and screening. Archiving to FireWire drives has its risks, but it sounds like you're already doing something like this now.

    -FCSvr does not help with rendering FCP timelines. If your employee is waiting around for a timeline to render, then the only thing you can buy to help there is faster Macs to work on. However, long-GOP codecs like HDV seriously increase the processing load for renders and transcodes. You'd have faster render and transcode times with a ProRes workflow, but you'd be taking a significant storage efficiency hit to get there.
  • by RicM,

    RicM RicM Sep 16, 2010 7:08 AM in response to A. Richards
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 7:08 AM in response to A. Richards
    *-ProRes Proxy for 1440x1080 (38 Mpbs) is about 1.5 times the bitrate of HDV 1440x1080 (25 Mbps). So while you would be gaining a much more optimized codec for FCP to work with in ProRes, you'd be taking a big hit on your storage to do so.*

    When you say "optimized" is that visual quality or speed of processing? On the client machine or the server? Am I correct in assuming that when working on a ProRes Proxy project on client that I would have much faster renders of transitions, keys, and composites than working full res on a standalone workstation? Then after I "check the project back in" the server relinks to the hi res and renders effects on the server in the hiRes version for output?

    *-FCSvr can archive your old footage to any storage it can see, and you can disconnect that storage. This would free up storage while preserving your assets and their proxies for searching and screening. Archiving to FireWire drives has its risks, but it sounds like you're already doing something like this now.*

    I would probably back up to external Raid1 firewire drives for important projects. Disk storage continues to decline in price. I always save my raw tapes in any case. Could I not dispose of the HiRes footage from inactive projects and recapture if required?
  • by A. Richards,

    A. Richards A. Richards Sep 16, 2010 7:53 AM in response to RicM
    Level 3 (625 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 7:53 AM in response to RicM
    ProRes wil be much faster for rendering on the client and transcoding on any machine, and will also allow for more realtime effects vs native HDV in FCP. "Full-rez" is a misnomer here, since ProRes Proxy does not sacrifice any resolution and indeed has a higher bitrate than native HDV. You might find that your HDV source looks just as good in ProRes Proxy (it is very high quality, just not as pristine as the higher quality versions of ProRes).

    Remember, ProRes 422 Proxy is still a 4:2:2 10-bit codec. I think you'd need to look awfully close to see a qualitative difference. You can choose to use ProRes Proxy at lower resolutions than your source media, but you don't need to. It is designed to work all the way up to 2K and maintain all the color fidelity of a 10-bit codec.

    When you check in a project that you are cutting locally with Edit Proxies, FCSvr relinks the project to the original media, but it does not render anything. You would need to open the project on the FCSvr host with FCP to create an flattened QuickTime against the original media (in your case native HDV).

    You can recapture, but when you have FCSvr cataloging your clips, you do not want to recapture the same media and duplicate the asset. If you are careful and recapture the clips that were disposed of to the exact same location with the exact same filename as before, FCSvr will re-link the media to the asset automatically. However, that workflow is very human-error-prone and I strongly recommend you not adopt it. Keep your source HDV tapes as a worst-case backup, but if you are going to use FCSvr, use its archive capability to RAID-1 external drives and only go back to the tapes if all else fails. And you'll need to be very careful to match you prior ingest if you do.

    Of course, you can always delete an asset altogether when you're done with its media and later recapture the footage from tape and treat it as a new asset. It depends on how interested you are in keeping your asset records and their proxies intact for media you plan to remove from storage.

    I'd take a good long look at ProRes Proxy vs HDV for quality. If you can't see a difference, capture to ProRes Proxy and make that your online format. Then you won't be eating up all your storage on the server keeping both the HDV original and a ProRes Proxy for edit proxies. If you don't enable edit proxies, FCSvr just hands out the original media.
  • by RicM,

    RicM RicM Sep 16, 2010 9:49 AM in response to A. Richards
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 9:49 AM in response to A. Richards
    Thank you so much for help in clarifying this all for me. For some reason I thought that ProRes Proxy was, well a proxy or offline set of media that referred back to the original media on the FCServer. If I am understanding you correctly ProRes Proxy is just a lower bitrate version of ProRes, although one still good enough to edit and master projects originally shot on HDV. The advantage is faster renders (not conforming HDV) and better colorspace for rendering composites, transitions etc. The downside is more disk space used in storage.

    I am curious about your suggestion to go to SSD for the boot drive on the client machines. How does this speed up rendering? I would still be going back and forth to an internal or external scratch disk, no? I thought that was the determining factor.

    Message was edited by: RicM
  • by John F. Whitehead,

    John F. Whitehead John F. Whitehead Sep 16, 2010 11:23 AM in response to RicM
    Level 2 (380 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 11:23 AM in response to RicM
    There are different uses of the term "proxy." FCSvr creates "clip proxies" for viewing and browsing, and which are H.264 by default. FCSvr can also create "edit proxies" meant for offline editing, which by default are created with the codec named "ProRes 422 (Proxy)."
  • by A. Richards,

    A. Richards A. Richards Sep 16, 2010 12:07 PM in response to RicM
    Level 3 (625 points)
    Sep 16, 2010 12:07 PM in response to RicM
    SSD doesn't help with rendering, it just makes your system snappier and it improves the database I/O performance for the FCSvr host. Also, FCP has always been happier when the render scratch is on a disk other than the boot volume. SSDs are not a requirement, but they are really nice to have and you will notice a difference in how responsive your Macs feel with them as boot drives.
  • by RicM,

    RicM RicM Sep 17, 2010 6:22 PM in response to RicM
    Level 1 (10 points)
    Sep 17, 2010 6:22 PM in response to RicM
    Thanks to all, great help in understanding the theory of this, I'll be back when it comes to the nuts and bolts of setting it up.
  • by Will Griffith,

    Will Griffith Will Griffith Sep 20, 2010 3:15 PM in response to A. Richards
    Level 1 (65 points)
    Sep 20, 2010 3:15 PM in response to A. Richards
    We run several systems with a similar configuration...

    Highpoint 2314 eSATA host adapter
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/576434-REG/PROAVIOAC_2314_RAID_HighPoint_RocketRAID_2314Host.html

    Sonnet Fusion D500P eSATA Array Enclosure or similar
    http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/532536-REG/SonnetFUS_D5P_00TB_Fusion_D500P_eSATAArray.html

    (5) 2TB Seagate drives

    Two of these are hooked to our FCS setup. One is the
    Library and one is the Proxies.

    Very fast.

    Hope that helps
    will